Hardware Analysis - Re: Doom3, just another first person shooter really

Re: Re: Doom3, just another first person shooter really

Sean B — 2004-08-09T22:37:47-05:00

I think the only time you'll notice the lack of polygons on the lost souls is when you capture a screenshot, because for the most part they fly around pretty quickly.

Pinky, however, has a sexy ass and not much going on in the face. Like I said earlier, I'm working to make ammends for ID's flop

Interesting...

[Kain] — 2004-08-09T21:28:37-05:00

Check out this page...

http://pc.ign.com/articles/511/511995p1.html?fromint=1

The image in the article shows no "box head" on the demon (it has a nice, round head), however the advertisement for Doom 3 in the upper-right corner shows lost souls with an extreme case of "Box Head". (The advertisement shows the screenshot of the 3 Lost Souls, as also seen on the product packaging.)

Thought it was worth mentioning, to support my previous post. You can also compare the article image with the Doom3.com screenshots, to compare the same demon model.

Re: Re: Doom3, just another first person shooter really

Michael C — 2004-08-09T17:03:20-05:00

that first screenshot that sean gave looks nice, are you saying the game doesnt look like that now?

Re: Re: Doom3, just another first person shooter really

^1nsan1ty^ — 2004-08-09T16:43:28-05:00

Ok, this is a bit of topic, but did anyone notice the XboX screenshots in a link someone posted above? Yuck, I'm glad I decided to upgrade my GFX instead of getting XboX.

Re: Doom3, just another first person shooter really

[Kain] — 2004-08-09T16:31:04-05:00

Woah, WOAH! Hold it there, fellah.

Let's think about this logically. What video card are you using? Doom 3 is built to downscale its technology to run most efficiently on whatever video card you are using (and does so quite efficiently, I must add). I have a geForce Ti 4200 that works nicely, but I notice some things are obviously missing that newer cards throw in (stuff like warping effect of window panes, time-sentitive models, etc.). I've even seen D3 run on a minimum-requirements laptop without any lag.

So, to get the engine to run at best efficiency, you'd think they would not only disable visual features, but also force objects to a lower poly count? Umm... lemme think about that for .2 seconds... Yeah, that seems like a good way to speed things up for older chipsets. Come on... you KNOW everything is scaled to at least 3 poly count levels; distant object have very low poly counts and near have more detailed. Is it so hard to think your game isn't just throwing lower poly objects in for efficiency? I suggest you crack open your rig and check your hardware and game settings before opening your can of whoopass on D3.

Now, I'm not saying I like the looks of the cardboard milk carton shaped heads, but at least I don't have to drop $400 to replace my card I bought 20 months ago. I don't have proof that the engine is forcing lower poly counts, but isn't it just blaringly obvious that this could be the case?

BTW, I think D3 is the best money I ever spent on a game. It's by far the most visually stunning, interactive, and plain old engrossing (emphasis on "gross") FPS I have ever seen. Half-Life 2 better have some major tricks up its sleeves, to preserve it's predecessor's "Best Game Ever" title from being lost to D3. I realize they are two different animals... D3 is dark and claustrophobic, and HL touts its landscapes and open spaces. But I still feel that D3 is superb. I highly recommend playing it in the dark with 5.1 surround (WTF? No 4-point support?!?).

Re: Re: Doom3, just another first person shooter really

Mohawk — 2004-08-09T15:09:51-05:00

well valve released 3 more screenshots of HL2 today and my god hl2 is gonna blow doom 3 out the water, and yes i have played doom 3 ive completed it its a great game but .... well see for yourself

http://www.gamershell.com/hellzone_FPS_Half-Life_2.shtml

Re: Re: Doom3, just another first person shooter really

Devryn — 2004-08-09T14:48:42-05:00

IRREGARDLESS IS NOT A WORD! It's one of those stupid ass made up words that people like to use to make themselves sound intelligent. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=irregardless

Re: Re: Doom3, just another first person shooter really

Sean B — 2004-08-09T14:10:49-05:00

I'm telling you.... the screenshots we've seen are on exactly the same in quality as the game itself.

I believe this is the pinky pic you're talking about: http://www.doomworld.com/shots/e32k2_stills/9.jpg

It looks very similar to the screenshot I captured, except that all texture compression and rounding is disabled.

The rest of the images are available here: http://www.doomworld.com/doom3/screenshots/

I agree with you, though... the 256x256 textures are very passe.

I'm trying to start a team of people to re-do all of the textures in higher resolution. I think I'll work on pinky by myself and see how that goes.

If it does work.... and it looks better, I will post a compressed archive available for download, including installation instructions.

Re: Re: Doom3, just another first person shooter really

Stu Stone — 2004-08-09T11:15:07-05:00

Re: Re: Doom3, just another first person shooter really
"Let me say this one more time. What happened to the cutting edge graphics? What I'm seeing as screenshots from the release version of the game are nowhere near as good as the screenshots that were being published in gamer magazines a year ago. Did id cut back on the graphics to make the game playable on more systems? Were the shots we were seeing in magazines even generated in the game engine, or created in photoshop and sent out as in game action? The screenshots of "pinky" that are linked to in this forum look like old Glide shots and are NOTHING like what we seeing even 3 years ago."

Three years ago... you answered your own question.

Three years ago, the game looked extraordinary... but lets look at all of the graphical revolutionaries that have come since seeing those screenshots:

+Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within (yes, the plot sucked, but graphically nothing can compete)
+Shrek 1 and 2
+FarCry and every other game that uses DirectX 9.
+Geforce 4, FX
+Radeon 9xxx, x800
+Maya 6 (ID soft was working with version 4)
+Softimage|XSI (I don't even believe was available 5 years ago)

Your perception of "good graphics" has changed.

When ID started this project... DirectX 6/7 were available, so they didn't have the same API that Bungie was able to work with for FarCry. I don't know if you all remember, but OpenGL was the only API that looked decent, and in some situations still does look decent.

The graphical engine was done first, there's no arguing that. By the time they reached the audio portion, DirectX 9 had kicked into gear... which is why the audio is amazing, supporting up to 7 channel surround sound. If they re-released the engine using the DirectX 9 or 10 API, the game would look how it was expected to look.

Post Edited On: Aug 08, 2004, 06:13 PM

Sean, you're not getting it yet. What I'm saying is that the graphics that we're seeing now are not the graphics we were seeing in all the reviews 3 years ago and even just a few weeks before the game was released. It has nothing to do with the graphics being new at the time. I'm looking around the net trying to get hold of some of those original screenshots. There is a huge difference in resolution. In the old shots you could look at Pinky from any angle and not see polygons. Indeed, you could see fur all over the upper body. In the screenshots taken from the release version of the game there is no fur! Even the textures used for the upper body look totally lame compared to the older shots.

Is anyone else noticing this at all? Wish I had saved all those old mags and screenshots. I believe they'd prove that the graphics content has been watered down to make the game playable on more machines. I will eventually play this game, probably get the crap scared out of me several times. But the whole time I'll be wondering what happened to those wonderful, cutting edge graphics.

Re: Re: Doom3, just another first person shooter really

Sean B — 2004-08-08T22:10:30-05:00

"Let me say this one more time. What happened to the cutting edge graphics? What I'm seeing as screenshots from the release version of the game are nowhere near as good as the screenshots that were being published in gamer magazines a year ago. Did id cut back on the graphics to make the game playable on more systems? Were the shots we were seeing in magazines even generated in the game engine, or created in photoshop and sent out as in game action? The screenshots of "pinky" that are linked to in this forum look like old Glide shots and are NOTHING like what we seeing even 3 years ago."

Three years ago... you answered your own question.

Three years ago, the game looked extraordinary... but lets look at all of the graphical revolutionaries that have come since seeing those screenshots:

+Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within (yes, the plot sucked, but graphically nothing can compete)
+Shrek 1 and 2
+FarCry and every other game that uses DirectX 9.
+Geforce 4, FX
+Radeon 9xxx, x800
+Maya 6 (ID soft was working with version 4)
+Softimage|XSI (I don't even believe was available 5 years ago)

Your perception of "good graphics" has changed.

When ID started this project... DirectX 6/7 were available, so they didn't have the same API that Bungie was able to work with for FarCry. I don't know if you all remember, but OpenGL was the only API that looked decent, and in some situations still does look decent.

The graphical engine was done first, there's no arguing that. By the time they reached the audio portion, DirectX 9 had kicked into gear... which is why the audio is amazing, supporting up to 7 channel surround sound. If they re-released the engine using the DirectX 9 or 10 API, the game would look how it was expected to look.

Re: Re: Doom3, just another first person shooter really

jmerc — 2004-08-08T12:21:17-05:00

I will say this, this is one great game. Once the action starts you just don't want to stop.
The shotgun really helps. I never played any of the other Doom games so I guess this is all new to me.

But irregardless of what anyone says, I love this game and the sound and graphics on my system are being tested. I left my setting at the default and ran FRAPS.

My framerates stay at 60 and go up and down.

Well gotta go, wanna get at least another half hour before my 7 year old wakes up.
This game will give any kid nightmares so beware....

Nice game.....

BTW - got the game for $44.99 + tax at circuit city yesterday.....

Again, what happened to the graphics?

Stu Stone — 2004-08-08T10:56:53-05:00

Let me say this one more time. What happened to the cutting edge graphics? What I'm seeing as screenshots from the release version of the game are nowhere near as good as the screenshots that were being published in gamer magazines a year ago. Did id cut back on the graphics to make the game playable on more systems? Were the shots we were seeing in magazines even generated in the game engine, or created in photoshop and sent out as in game action? The screenshots of "pinky" that are linked to in this forum look like old Glide shots and are NOTHING like what we seeing even 3 years ago. Eventually I'll play this game, but I'm not spending my money on it.

Re: Re: Doom3, just another first person shooter really

MrBungle — 2004-08-08T08:43:50-05:00

I kind of agree with sander on this one. The gameplay is something that we haven't seen in awhile, it has the atmosphere of movies like Event Horizon. But the graphics are what they have been trying to wow us with for the past how many years now? Id just waited too long to release the game. When the first screen shots were released they looked incredible but now after playing Far Cry they're not quite so over the top. They're still really good, but not quite the huge leap forward over anything we have seen before that they were touting it would be. I think that HL2 will fall into the same trap too because of its delays. Regardless being an old doom fan I still had to buy the game and play it 8hrs + a day until i beat it.

Re: Re: Doom3, just another first person shooter really

Darkensi Darksbane — 2004-08-08T04:25:57-05:00

Hrmm....I prefer Unreal Tournament 2004 over Doom III.....i think UT2004 blows both Fary Cry and D3 out of the sky.

Re: Re: Doom3, just another first person shooter really

Brian Stewart — 2004-08-07T21:12:57-05:00

I have a 6800 GT, I play at 1600 1200 ultra.
It has a stutter once in a while when loading in new textures (I'm gonna defrag, I unpacked the pak files yesterday but didn't defrag), but beyond thta it's smooth.