Hardware Analysis - Gateway Profile 4 Monitor Problem

Re: Gateway Profile 4 Monitor Problem

Kenneth Rogers — 2008-08-24T15:22:05-05:00

If you now get a dull gray screen, its a sure bet that the LCD has been damaged. BUT, because you have disconnected all POWER to the internal LCD circuits, you will not see anything. Plug the white power connector back in for now. If you can see light at the very edges of the LCD display, that is an indication backlight bulbs, and inverter board is OK. Suggest that you get some DDR memory in there, you cna go wuth jus a single 256 or 512, or 1GB as that might be a problem if its too slow, and be sure the CPU has that white grease LIGHTLY smeared on, bewteen the heat sink which is screwed back on. Suggest also, that you go back into the CMOS settings and and use the arrow keays to navigate around. You want to be sure that the system is seeing a hard drive as well as booting from CD. These settings are within the CMOS. It can't screw it up, so don't worry. If you see a CMOS screen and cannot get into the settings due to PWs, someone has set a PW in there. To clear any PWs and also get the system back into default mode, remove the CMOS battery. Its a round, quarter sized battery that snaps in and is next to the IDE connector. Wait at least 5 minutes before putting the battery back in. This will clear any PW and also date and time revert back.The other thing requires looking for a small black 2 pin jumper just below teh CPU socket and to the right looking from the back. Its usually set to jumper 1-2, temproarily set it to 2-3, power up Even without the CMOS battery installed), and then power off again, replace the jumper back to pins 1-2. For this point, when you power up again, you should see a CMOS screen. Again, go in there and reset the time and date and also check to see what the boot order is, use the arrow keys. Open the CD drawer and make sure the laser lens is not damaged, use a VERY LIGHT touch to make just one LIGHT pass over the lens with a clean Q-tip. DO NOT RUB as it can scratch, you just want any loose stuff off the optics.

From what I am seeing here, it looks like the Profile has had many problems before you got it, and even for that accidentially plugging in the display cable incorrectly to the back of LCD has caused more serious damages now. A few of mine are also gray and are not recoverable, as are the all white displays.

Check to make sure that CD is readable and BOOTABLE from another system. If its Vista, forget about it, as it will not support Vista. XP or XP Pro or Windows 2000 are the more common OS's.

Getting odd stuff on the screen may indicate that you have circuit problems. Cant recall, but did you previously mention swelled and blown caps near the right top, If these are bad, they effect the multiple voltages on the P4 CPU, as well as RAM power. Before you go further, ALL these caps in each row should be replaced!! If your not able to do this, it will only fail further, an could damage the black MOSFETs above them. I can be reached by email, if you log onto eBay and type in my user name there- kennyrogers-. Then send me a note with your email address and we can communicate a bit better at that point. I do fix most boards, and can help if you send off the motherboard, and display panel wth its LCD and associated circuits behind it. Its all mounted on a big metal plate. I have had a 95% success rate on repairs on these. The only problems I cant fix is if caps leak so bad that the corrosive goo goes under the chipset which is below and to the left of the CPU socket. It usually also has its own smaller heatsink.

Keep me posted..

Re: Gateway Profile 4 Monitor Problem

Eddie Piland — 2008-08-23T19:28:33-05:00

Kenneth,
I rechecked all connections and now have a dark grayish screen. (Duh!) I wised up and remembered that my televisions are monitors. I disconnected the power cable to the LCD (per instructions of previous posters) and connected the computer to the TV. When starting and pressing F2 as you instructed, I get the Phoenix BIOS Utility Screen. All I could ascertain from the BIOS, with my limited knowledge was the CMOS clock and date where correct. I shut down and inserted the Operation System CD and restarted. The Gateway Logo flashed and I got a screen with letters and numbers. I did not get a Windows screen. As the CD loaded and ran for maybe 30 to 45 seconds the screen began adding additional numbers and letters. It then stopped with a screen full of numbers,letters and symbols that looked like hearts. I assume this indicates (1) there is a problem with the LCD display because there was visual on the external moniter and (2) there is another problem (possibly the Motherboard). Any further suggestions.
Thanks

Re: Gateway Profile 4 Monitor Problem

Kenneth Rogers — 2008-08-22T13:05:55-05:00

Intersting!. Before proceeding, press F1 or F2 repeatedly at power up to force the system into the BIOS. Use a strong flashlight aimed at an angle on the dark screen to see if you can see a faint screen with text showing up. If you see no text at all, the display may be bad due its previous issues. Be absolutely sure that the four HIGH VOLTAGE connectors are plugged into the inverter correctly. The pink wire ones (top an bottom) go to the left connectors of the inverter, and the blue wire connecters are plugged into the right connectors on the inverter. Verify that the inverter is also plugged into the scaler board correctly too. From this latest symptom, it appears that you may now have a bad inverter, unless its been plugged into the display wrong. Let me know what you find. As to hard drives and such, there is no need to be concerned with CD or hard drive right now, as they are things that boot up later on.Your at a level where your dealing with a POST- Power On Self Test, which only checks CPU and RAM at this point.

Re: Gateway Profile 4 Monitor Problem

Eddie Piland — 2008-08-21T19:57:43-05:00

Kenneth,
I installed the scaler board and (partial high-five) I now have a black screen. I am hoping this is progress. When I start the computer now I get a gray screen for a partial second and then a black screen I still have no bios screen or Logo. I inserted the Gateway Operations Ststem CD to re-install. The CD/DVD indicator flashed off and on for at least a full minute and there were noises like it was loading. It then stopped which made me think there was a prompt and was awaiting a response.I tried pushing F8, F1, F2, and ESC while holding the start button. Does the black screen indicate I have fixed the LCD problem or can it still be the LCD Display? As I posted originally, I replaced the Hard Drive but could not format it due to the screen situation. I then replaced the old Hard Drive. Is this presenting a problem? My understanding is, the hard Drive would not affect the startup screen. What do you think? Are we in to replacing the Motherboard, Power unit etc. or is there something else I can try? Also tell me if I have exceeded the scope of this post subject and should post elsewhere.Thanks

Re: Gateway Profile 4 Monitor Problem

Kenneth Rogers — 2008-08-19T00:19:41-05:00

It may be that when it was first plugged back in, it was skewed slightly. As you know the spacing between the gold contacts is very thin. I usually try to straghten out the cable a little before plaugging it back in. The connector that plugs into the LCD is where you usually see a sharp bend in all the wires. I just use fingers and thumb to strainghten it up a little before it gets plugged in again. You need to connect the inverter 4 connectors before the video one. Most of the time I can easily line up the metal shield where the female connector is, but I do leave the display set vertically, with something holding it at the bottom like tape, so it doesn't slip out of the frame. Once in a while its a difficult connector to plug in, as a steady hand is needed. Its really difficult to know if the scaler is the problem, only because of all the random the symptoms on the LCD display there are so many ways it could fail. Most of mine that fail are all white which indicates a blown LCD display, so I take out the backlight sections to use in other displays that have bad CCFL bulbs. There are even more chips mounted in very thin kaptan material, thats inside the metal shield on the back of the display. Good luck, keep me posted..

Re: Gateway Profile 4 Monitor Problem

Eddie Piland — 2008-08-18T22:21:49-05:00

Kenneth Rogers,
Thanks for the help, I did have a lot of trouble seating that connector. I had already pulled the LCD again and reseated it. Following your tips I just reseated and checked all the connectors again. It is hard to tell when laying the LCD onto the screw hubs that everything is connected but I feel pretty good about the connections. After reseating the connectors this time I now have some pale blue lines (spaced at random widths) running vertically on the screen.
I have located a video scaler board and will buy it. I will post after receipt and installation.

Thanks, I really appreciate the response and tips.
Eddie

Re: Gateway Profile 4 Monitor Problem

Kenneth Rogers — 2008-08-17T19:00:44-05:00

Try reseating the video cable thats on the back of the LCD display. Becuase these thin connectors only insert about a 1/16 inch into the mating connector of the display, they can come loose or be skewed. The video scaler may be fried now too. Some time ago, the 15 inch LCD displays would heat up to a point where the thin wires going from the scaler connector to the LCD display connector, can have all their insuation 'crumble' off, exposing about 20 thin wires. If these wires touch each other or are shorted anyplace inside, that can also fry the scaler board. Trust me, I had two like that!! and actually used mylar tape which I wrapped around each wire so its bare area was covered.8).

Re: Gateway Profile 4 Monitor Problem

Eddie Piland — 2008-08-17T13:29:26-05:00

Having read all these posts, I have what seems to be the same problem with the Profile 4 inverter board but maybe more extensive. I would greatly appreaciate any advice.
I will give the complete scenario:
The unit started to make a squeeking noise (occasionally) over a period of 4 months.
The screen started to freeze and a shutdown and reboot would fix it.
One day when using it the computer the screen froze and a reboot would get only a black screen (no BIOS or Windows) . It appeared like it was rebooting (HDD turning, CD/DVD lighting, fan running etc.) but would diplay nothing but the black screen. Someone said it appeared to be the Hard Drive so I replaced it. Of course I could not format it because Windows was not on the screen. After reading the posts from this link I bought a new Inverter Board from eBay and replaced the old one. Turning the unit on the screen lit up and now is white instead of black. I tried a restore CD, an extreme boot CD and pulled and replace the memory one at a time.
I can tell the CD player is loading when running the reboot CD.
I have tried holding F8, F1, F2, ESC when booting. I sometime get beeps but no bootup screen. One time while holding F8 the beeps got closer together like the machine was angry.
I don't have an external monit0r to try since I have got a laptop to replace this unit.
Do I need to try and borrow a monitor to test? Is ther any thing else to try before I haul it to the dump?

Re: Gateway Profile 4 Monitor Problem

Kenneth Rogers — 2008-05-06T23:53:19-05:00

After the caps blow, they tend to short out the MOSFETs they are near to (above the CPU socket). The MOSFETs are a Fairchild product (possibly obsolete now) that is available from England through Newark or Mouser. The have several different numbers but most are the same characteristics. I have had several MOSFETs actullay burn the copper foil off the motherboard. With a 1 second display power, attempting to switch to external monitor is diffiicult unless you unplug the power going to the video scaler board, so unplugging the two video cables from the motherboard will, by default, switch on the external display. I do BOARD LEVEL repairs on the inverters and remove working HV transformers from bad boards and use the good scavenged parts to repair other bad boards. The removal of bad caps and the burned out MOSFETs is also easy provided you have a heavy soldering iron rated at about 75 or more Watts. The metal plates that wrap around the two groups of HV transormers are actaully shields. I have seen several of the transformers windings melt the nylon plastic insulators, and punch through the plastics out to the shields. A very close brand of transformer is sold by Coil Craft, and I am trying to work on a design that will help this problem, as Samgung has not been cooperative when it comes to suppling this replacement part. If inverters fail continually, ths is usualy a symptom of the backlight failing. These are very thin glass tubes with electrodes on the ends. They tend to darken and then draw more power from the inverter. Worst yet, if they are broken at the ends, they can quickly destroy an inverter board. I have had the third party inverters (from Moniserv) also fail, some after just a few minutes. They use only single HV transformers for each set of two of lamps.

Re: Gateway Profile 4 Monitor Problem

Mike Phillips — 2008-05-06T23:36:46-05:00

Ok it turns out that it was the inverter board I Used the hard plastic backing from my old board on the new board, and one of the resistors burnt through the plastic and was touching the metal back and shorting out. I re positioned the board to give it space from the back of the board to the back of the computer and it is working now. But it seems it takes a few seconds to initialize the LCD it does not go on until the windows boot screen comes on. I called the company I purchased it from and they are sending out another boar Free of Charge. to replace the one I have now. These boards they sell are NEW and are a replacement to the original. The board seems to be a better design by the looks of it. The new one fits with a little adjustment or you can use the two plastic sticky it comes with. Anyhow I think if anyone needs a new Board that this is the better buy! then getting a USED one from eBAY.

Re: Gateway Profile 4 Monitor Problem

Tony Marini — 2008-05-06T22:18:19-05:00

I've seen a lot of information posted regarding this problem with the Gateway Profile 4 LCD problem -- some is good, some is not so good. I can tell you this:

The Gateway systems have bad electrolytic capacitors included on their motherboards, mostly from the Korean vendor "Sam Young" -- but there are numerous others. The bad caps that I've encountered are used mostly in the +12V area along the perimeter of the motherboard. These capacitors were part of a vast number of junk capacitors that came upon the commercial marketplace during a capacitor shortage back in 2002-2005. These caps have counterfeit dielectric material that causes them to fail prematurely (causing the "bump" in the top of the metal can and the spewing of the dielectric material). This is a chicken-and-egg situation with temperature: The dielectric material fails...the capacitor heats...the heat causes the dielectric to expand...causing more to fail...causing the eventual venting of the capacitor case. Any capacitor with even a slight bump to the top of the metal case should be replaced, along with any capacitors of a similar type. However, if there are other capacitors of different values/ratings on the board, and they haven't failed as yet, or show signs of failure...they aren't likely to fail. This isn't absolutely fool proof thinking...a capacitor can fail anytime. The fool proof way is to replace any large value electrolytic capacitors (680uF+) with fresh capacitors from a trusted source. I suggest Digikey (http://www.digikey.com or Mouser (http://www.mouser.com) -- but you have to know what you're ordering, so seek technical help if the part numbers/ratings are confusing or a mystery to you!!

The preponderance of these systems have a bad LCD backlight inverter, Samsung model number SIC850 (Code BA44-00121A). This inverter is bad for two reasons -- the design of the flyback transformers (located under the metal heatsinks and plastic insulators) is inadequate. The insulation on the wires used for the windings of these transformers eventually breaks down (either due to high voltage/ozone or temperature or both) and causes short circuits within the winding on the bobbin. This is a design flaw that Samsung/Gateway should have realized early on in their product testing! The problem is further exacerbated by the very poor airflow that is available to the inverter board.

The problem with no video present can be fixed entirely by replacing the LCD backlight inverter board. I bought a replacement on eBay for $69 (plus 9.99 shipping) and had the system that I was repairing up and running in less than an hour. It wasn't exactly a form/fit replacement, but after removing the "PEM" studs that the old inverter board attached to with a pliers, I used the self-adhesive plastic mounting studs to secure the new inverter in place. All that is necessary is to thread a couple of #8 nuts onto the plastic studs to hold the PCB tightly in place.

If you repair your system and you get a momentary LCD display during the computer's POST, your inverter board is OKAY and functioning properly! You need to attach an external monitor and then change the display settings for the video card to "Analog Display 2" (on the desktop: Properties>Settings>Advanced>GeForce 2 MX/MX 400>nView Display Modes>nView Modes: Single Display, Current Display: Analog Display 2). This is the mode that enables the internal LCD display drive for the Profile 4. Once you've changed to "Analog 2", the external monitor should no longer work...HOWEVER, the internal LCD of the Profile 4 should work just fine.

I've repaired several of these machines for a local school and all have been up/running with new inverter boards for several weeks...I did a 72 hour burn-in on the units before they were returned (units on continuously in a hot room -- the best I could do!).

There is no reason why you can't successfully repair a Gateway Profile 4 with this problem. You just need a little time and patience and you'll be good to go!

Re: Gateway Profile 4 Monitor Problem

Kenneth Rogers — 2008-05-04T00:25:48-05:00

Yes, the LCD back light can fail and blow out HV transforemers on the inverters. I too has a couple of bad boards from Moniserv. Send yours back and get a replacement. I would hope that the replacement LCD display your buying should stop the blowing out inverter boards. Be sure to keep the upper and lower wires from the backlight going to the proper inverter HV connections.Looking at the inverter, they usually have the pink wires on the left (top and bottom) and the blue to the right. Keep us posted. Also, a similar situation of no display can be caused by the video defaulting to external, and even though internal is supposed o be actve, it can shut down the inverter power.

Re: Gateway Profile 4 Monitor Problem

Mike Phillips — 2008-05-02T00:48:57-05:00

Ok, I have read through all of these posts and concluded my Profile 4.5 Has a Bad Inverter. So I purchased one off of eBay and installed it and the same thing happens. (Gateway Logo) for about 1-2 Seconds and then it goes blank. then i said heck with the OEM board and purchased one from MoniServ the #SIC850MSS Board, got it today and yes its alittle different.
But fits just fine with a few small adjustments. Then I connected my LCD. and it WORKED! I was so HAPPY. I shut it down booted it up and worked fine. BUT AFTER around 5-7 Mins It went blank again!!!!!! :o" title=">:o"> :o" title=">:o"> :o" title=">:o"> I shut it down and booted it up and im back at square 1!
I do not have any bulging capacitors on my mother board. My EXTERNAL monitor works 100% when connected. but the DAMN thing got me puzzled!! ANY Ideas ??
.
I also purchased a LCD from eBay it will arrive tomorrow, im hoping its the LCD! I cant afford to Buy more parts that will not fix my computer!

If that does not work I will be STUCK! and I am tired of using another monitor infront of a perfectly good computer!

Re: Gateway Profile 4 Monitor Problem

Kenneth Rogers — 2008-04-24T15:58:49-05:00

As mentioned at the end of my recent post (above), if you have an eBay account, you can contact me through there at- kennyrogers1. Leave me a message and I can get back to you with my direct email address and details. I didn't want to post my direct email address here, as it would probably attract a lot of SPAMMERs. eBay is also a place where you can buy new inverter boards, but at a higher price. If you don't have an account on eBay, you can post again here, and then I will supply an alternate email address for you to contact.

Re: Gateway Profile 4 Monitor Problem

DANIEL HIGGINS — 2008-04-24T02:46:48-05:00

can you fix the sic850 inverters i have 2 to be fixs and a motherboard to can you help me or can you tell me were to get the parts?
Thanks. Dan