Hardware Analysis - example of fallacy

Re: example of fallacy

OCGW — 2005-04-07T08:02:55-05:00

Economics = distribution of resources

I can't knock ppl who bend the rules in the game

When the game is already "fixed"

OCGW

PEACE

Re: example of fallacy

j osborn — 2005-04-07T07:20:02-05:00

Silver Back Gorillas? Baron Archibald Dumas? NOLF? One of my top 10 favorite games.

Re: example of fallacy

j osborn — 2005-04-07T07:10:44-05:00

Yes, I agree that I could never do the type of damage that would bring Bill Gates/Sony to their knees. But if we all do our part then we could definitely have a balance...like Taoism.
In my opinion, I think laws are meant to be broken and thats why they are there. Just a civilized way to take more money from the average citizen. You don't see rich people getting caught stealing, they don't have to. I mean first we get taxed 33.3% of our employment checks, then we get taxed 6.7% on everything we buy, and the wealthy only get up to $80,000 of their wages taxed for the year, even if they make $20,000 a week, like a CEO. I mean I know that that isn't against the law but what about what that dweeb was talking about, moral issues. It may not be against the law, but isn't it immoral to be a multimillionaire and only get taxed for up to $80,00 of you gross, without speaking up for the hard work and low pay of the average citizen getting everything taxed? Don't they have a conscience? What about their morals? What about when I only make $50,000 a year and they tax every-bit of it? Don't they have morals about someone being over-worked and underpaid? I wouldn't bet on it.
So I think everyone with a lot of money is very afraid of losing it, and they should be. Most of them would not know how to deal with life after having all they've ever wanted taken away from them. Well I am not a millionaire and I don't have $800 to spend on Photoshop7....now if I learn to use it real good and get a job using it exclusively, then I promise I will buy it. But until then I want to barbecue, and have cableTV, and spend a little money on my lady-friend every so often. So the guys who claim law and always refer to 'law this' and 'law that'...they need it.....it lets them be the pricks that they are with government protection. Sometimes when everyone has their hands in the bowl you've just gotta go over there and push your way through and grab what you want, no-one is gonna hand you anything. Especially rich pricks who won't even divvy their income tax equally. Do you think their morals are shouting "Hey no..this isn't fair. We should all have to pay the same taxes." Hell no! What they are thinking is "Hell yeah. I must be special. God loves me. Man, going to church is really paying off." They look to God for the justification of their actions. Me personally, I think that if there is a God then he's probably pretty bored and is waiting for the less fortunate to find other ways to survive and beat the system, start a civil war.
Man, don't even get me started on that. I know I am getting carried away but I like to throw a lot of issues out there that correlate to what a few people talked about in this forum. Anyways....its just my opinion.

jAMMER

Re: example of fallacy

OCGW — 2005-04-07T00:45:29-05:00

You will never be able to pirate enough to get even w/ Bill Gates, & Sony

They have too big a "head start"

OCGW

PEACE

Re: example of fallacy

Citizen T. — 2005-04-06T23:47:54-05:00

Well said j osborn.

Stealing, like everything else is a relative matter.

Re: example of fallacy

OCGW — 2005-04-06T23:01:57-05:00

Nice post

I used the 800lb Silver Back Gorilla analogy in one of my posts

OCGW

PEACE

Re: example of fallacy

j osborn — 2005-04-06T06:18:11-05:00

We can debate this issue all day and into next year if you want, piracy will still be around. I am still gonna participate. However, if you know something about torrents and bitcomet, then you are obviously 1. a pirate, 2. an internet pig, or 3. someone who works for one of these billion dollar businesses or you just have your head way up Lars Ulrich's ass. Anyhow, life in the city, in a way, is like life in the jungle, instead of survival of the fittest its more like survival of the richest. Analogy: In the jungle lets say you have a lion and he needs food, and you have a hyena who needs food. Well, one on one the lion would kick a hyenas ass and get the food. So the hyena gets smart and gets a few buddies together and gets the food the next time around. This is the way the hyena stears clear of extinction. The lion may feel like the hyena cheated him, but then again the hyena feels like it was cheated because it was born a smaller animal. Just like the real world. Big, rich and wealthy people who have it all don't need to pirate and can't believe someone would or could do that. So us pirates are using the resources and information at hand. In the jungle if you don't succeed, you die. In the city you become transient. It's all fair game. And by the way, did George Washington buy the U.S. from the Indians???Hell no! He just took it and now its ours. Killed all the Indians who got in his way. That's terrorism. People high up on the totem pole are afraid to lose all the bulls**t they have bought because they depend on it, and they get all their money by overpricing all the stuff that the average income American buys. So its all relative. I don't want to pay that much for bulls**t CD's that will scratch if you breathe on them wrong. I am gonna take what I can get in this world. To all the corporate f**ks...aren't you the guys that came up with the catchy phrase, "Its not personal, its just business"

jAMMER "There's ways around that."

Re: example of fallacy

OCGW — 2005-02-10T00:37:01-05:00

I am going to say something that is going to shock you

Let me be brave

I DON"T KNOW

There I did it, that wasn't so bad, only hurt a little

I have never used torrents, but I guess if you are distributing in any way, & you are found out, they may have a case

OCGW

PEACE

Re: example of fallacy

Citizen T. — 2005-02-09T23:30:28-05:00

So, OCGrandWizard, how would you categorize downloading bit torrents? you are not really sharing the full copyrighted material unless you are seeding, however you are distribuiting small parts of it at a time.
That seems arguable in both directions, what do you think?

Re: example of fallacy

Citizen T. — 2005-02-09T23:27:08-05:00

hey there Brian Stewart, that inductive reasioning that you have going there is an example of an unsound argument. Basically its another fallacy.

Re: example of fallacy

OCGW — 2005-02-09T22:23:03-05:00

Now Citizen T. we are on the same page

Yes it is possible to be sued for simple downloading

But that doesn't make it illegal (criminal)

& it doesn't make you a pirate

But, if you don't get into the P2P networks, they probably will never find you

The worse that can happen is you have to pay for what you already got for free

I REALLY resented being told I am a criminal, & a pirate when I am not

As a matter of fact, I was a PIRATE, I sold a few DVD's & CD's (& I knew it was wrong when I did it), but I don't do that anymore (I am reformed), now I use my computer skills to repair & upgrade comps

I am a law abiding citizen

& Brian Stewart, if you read the example above you will see that those people were prosecuted for SHARING, NOT DOWNLOADING

Can you really build, fix comps, & not grasp the difference between simple downloading (for personal use) legal under the "FAIR USE ACT", & sharing where you become a provider, & distributer (ILLEGAL)?

The court case cited proved MY point

OCGW

PEACE

Re: example of fallacy

Brian Stewart — 2005-02-09T21:10:00-05:00

1.
There are people who would never* buy any of the stuff that they download. A download of a song, does not represent a $1 or $2 profit loss.

AND
There are people who would NEVER buy anything they steal from a physical store.

and as far as your second point
Packaging is EXTREMELY cheap and the pressing of discs costs on the order of fractions of a cent per disc.

Beyond that, physical stores are INSURED for theft, copyright holders are NOT insured against the losses they incur due to people downloading.

Therefore, downloading is MORE damaging than stealing a physical copy.

EDIT
And OCGW
STOP spreading your lies about "downloading is not illegal, only distributing is illegal" because it's NOT true.
The courts have ruled TIME AND TIME AGAIN that people who DOWNLOAD copyrighted material are breaking the LAW, and they have ruled TIME AND TIME AGAIN to punish them for it.
Regardless of what the copyright law says, the courts have interpreted it this way (which is the RIGHT way - it is WRONG to steal, and it SHOULD be illegal)

If you STILL think it is perfectly legal to download copyrighted material, WHY do people get taken to court, fined, sued, and jailed for it?

Re: example of fallacy

Soul1601 — 2005-02-09T21:04:53-05:00

Yet again Im going to give the "High-school educated" version of Sanders comparison.

a Shopping cart full of CD from a Store

vs

a metiforic shopping cart fulls WORTH of CD from the Internet.

What I think he is saying, is that MOST (not all) People who Download Music from the internet, after they aquire a song off the internet or in some cases a Whole CD, DO NOT go out to the store and BUY that CD. In otherwords hurting the Sales of the CD. Granted there are the people who download a song first, like the music they are hearing and then go purchase the CD from a store, or off a program such as iTunes. In a sense the better way of saying that is that. Downloading songs from the internet is not like stealing the CDs its just not buying them at all. The CDs at the store are still availble for sale, but there are going to be a lot more people who Pirated their own CDs rather then go buy the full CD and its contents inside that little jeweled case.

Now Yes in the US, to my understanding its NOT illigal to Download Music. But it is my understanding that you must own that music, in order to do so. In otherwords you Purchased that music, and do have the Copyrights of that CD in your posession. (I think Im right on that anyway)
its like DVDs you can copy them all you want, but if you discard or give away or even resell your DVDs your supposed to destroy the copies or give them to the person that is getting the Original.

Either way. Piracy effects CD/DVD sales. The Companys who continue to spit out CDs need to look at where they can still make their buck. I think they could make as much money as they do now. by skipping the packing shipping and retail store selling and just setup Online Sale servers like iTunes. and cut back on the CD retail demands. Not everyone can download music and burn their own CDs but as times are changing, close to everyone will be making their own.

just MHO take or leave it

Re: example of fallacy

H F — 2005-02-09T15:14:46-05:00

In Sweden it's illegal to download as well, and I've seen people from Antipiratbyr�n at DC++ for example, sharing material, in order to fool people to download it, so they can accuse them of piracy.

Re: example of fallacy

Citizen T. — 2005-02-09T15:08:36-05:00

ok so they were sued for sharing, but anybody can still be sued for downloading and not sharing since by the RIAA dowloading is a monetary loss. So the fact that it is not illegal doesnt really help you much correct?

ps. thank you for the info