Hardware Analysis - Vindicated indeed

Re: Vindicated indeed

Sparkle Yax — 2005-10-17T11:59:15-05:00

Besides that.. (I am not an expert, so I don't know exactly how much it really makes a differance) .. the benchmarks of that site are done with a X1800XT 512mb... while for instance the Nvidia series are 256mb cards if I don't mistake... Since I read in other articles it indeed makes a difference (for example in CoD2 or BF2 it does) if you have a card that has 256mb or 512mb... I am interested in what the performance of the Nvidia 7800 series will do (or what the benchmarks would have looked like) when they are/would have been equipped with 512mb.

Re: Vindicated indeed

Omniscient — 2005-10-10T16:48:02-05:00

What a glorious waste of my afternoon at work, I have spent the better part of 4 hours reading all 8 pages of DH's "Hoaxware Analysis", the majority of the 17 pages from B3D's "Hardware Analysis r520 scores x1800xt+pro" and of course Sanders full account right here.

After looking at DH�s review
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/r520reviewxvxv/index.htm

I�m interested in what has since happened between Sanders and other voices like Zardon, Kombatant and ATI�s own Andrzej Bania and Chris Hook.

Have there been any acknowledgements made that, while unsubstantiated, your benchmarks seem to hold their own?

From ATI�s assured attitude, I was seriously expecting them to embarrass Nvidia. In my mind it is the other way around, unless a 20+ pipeline card is revealed in the near future. Nvidia was first in releasing, and maintains the lead.

In fact the DH review specifically makes mention that �ATI believes that it�s no longer useful to talk about how many pipelines a part has�� ironic really, I�d hazard a guess that if they had managed to produce a 32 pipe card that it would�ve been a major marketing point. Oh well I�m glad it�s over. The last two cards I bought were ATI, the next will be Nvidia.

Re: Vindicated indeed

guru Shane — 2005-10-10T14:33:15-05:00

I obviously never read anything. I just QUOTE the things that have been said and MAKE UP WORDS to write down afterwords....

Tsk Tsk

Go on Sander buy and bench an ATI X1800XT, then sell it used

Michel Merlin — 2005-10-10T08:30:24-05:00

Sander Sassen, Sat 08 Oct 08 09:15 -0400: � unfortunately it will probably mean I'll have to buy one rather than get one from a board partner �

So you are the 1st to speak about to "buy" the card, and I think this is quite wise and appropriate; this affair having become controversial and your reputation having been attacked by a big firm, it's better you answer quite clearly; keeping silent would build a wrong idea of you and your site. And, at least in any such case where the neutrality of benchmarks has been questioned, better is to buy anonymously a card than getting it from any source as the maker or any partners of any parties in the affair (the maker, a competitor, a journalist, or a partner of any of those).

Then you can sell it used, I am sure some people would be honored to buy the card that Sander Sassen has first bought anonymously, second tested personnally.

(PS. Don't be impressed by messages as Blue Fri 07 Oct 17:22 -0400 - he obviously posted without reading, see for instance my "Paper Launch vs Paper Bench" of Wed 5 Oct 2005 13:19:10 -0400, previous page http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/49768/ )

Paris, Mon 10 Oct 2005 10:31:50 +0200

Re: Vindicated indeed

Mort1616 — 2005-10-09T16:00:55-05:00

I do agree with you there blue. He shouldn't have to pay it.

C'est la vie. unfortunatly.

Re: Vindicated indeed

guru Shane — 2005-10-09T14:30:53-05:00

I'm saying that he shouldn't go out of his way to write an article about their new product. That doesn't mean that his articles are biased or will be. That simply means that he shouldn't turn around and give ATI $579 for a video card that they should have sent him a sample of for free. Sander is doing them a favor by writing about their products, so he shouldn't have to pay for that.

Re: Vindicated indeed

Mort1616 — 2005-10-09T09:05:12-05:00

Blue

Have you not noticed that the ethos is one of getting good informed information to the end user, and not one of saying "they damaged my rep so I wont write anything good about them". If Sander started writing biased articles, or only writing the ones that for people that get on with him, he would cease to be a good journalist. In other words it doesn't matter that ATI can be a bunch of Tw*ts, and tried to burn him. Also it must be quite satisfying to hold the high ground and say 'I turned the other cheek'.

Do you still not want him to write said article?

Re: Vindicated indeed

guru Shane — 2005-10-08T16:10:36-05:00

Yea, no doubt. If ATI doesn't want the publicity, then you certainly shouldn't help their profit margin any. It's not even the same card as was used in the benchmarks that were posted earlier, so it's not like it will give the same results. Personally, I wouldn't help the ones that tried to damage my reputation.

Re: Vindicated indeed

Shadow_Ops_Airman1 — 2005-10-08T13:38:20-05:00

why not just forget buying the board as ur not interested anyway, save yourself money and wait until the G80 and R580

Re: Vindicated indeed

Sander Sassen — 2005-10-08T13:15:34-05:00

Mort et al,

Rest assured that I'm in the process of getting a card, and rerunning the benchmarks on it, unfortunately it will probably mean I'll have to buy one rather than get one from a board partner. Obviously ATI is not going to supply me with a sample.

Regards,

Re: Vindicated indeed

Mort1616 — 2005-10-08T11:36:31-05:00

Sander

I also would like to see an unbiased benchmark from yourself, as I'm confident that, thats what you'd give us. A fantastic idea from andrew but was the sarcasm really required, do you not think that the process of getting hold of a x1800** is in progress at the moment and that it probably isn't just as simple as giving Toms Hardware a call and asking to borrow one?

I also hope that you don't get offended by things that people post here, and just take a step back laugh at the absurdity of some of it. I think we all need reminding sometimes to take a step backwards and look at the situation, when I remind myself to do that I useually chuckle.

Keep up the good work

Re: Vindicated indeed

guru Shane — 2005-10-07T21:22:05-05:00

"From the beginning of this affair I feel like Sander has a good analysis"

Why do you continue this with a "but" when it isn't necessary?

"but pushes it with too much emotion"

I take it that you've only read 1 article and none of the others? Pffft. Tsk Tsk

"and unbacked stances,"

I see benchmarks in many of the articles...

"and too easily gets too upset,"

You should put youself in his shoes.

"thus harming his own credibility;"

lol wtf?

"IMO he should oppositely state less phrases and post more proofs and verifiable tests."

He posted benchmarks even when he didn't have access to the card. I would say that is above and beyond what many sites would do.

Sander, get an ATI X1800XT yourself, and post verifiable tests of it

Michel Merlin — 2005-10-07T06:42:18-05:00

I second andrew kairis' excellent idea (Thu 6 Oct 16:22 -0400): � How about, now that the product's have launched, you get yourself one and run tests yourself? �

From the beginning of this affair I feel like Sander has a good analysis but pushes it with too much emotion and unbacked stances, and too easily gets too upset, thus harming his own credibility; IMO he should oppositely state less phrases and post more proofs and verifiable tests.

Paris, Fri 7 Oct 2005 08:43:00 +0200

HERE'S A NOVEL IDEA!!

andrew kairis — 2005-10-06T20:22:50-05:00

How about, now that the product's have launched, you get yourself one and run tests yourself?

You could recreate the circumstances the AIB partner said they had in thier own lab and compare.

You could check out how NV's old and new drivers effect the scoring difference.

I know it was only a paper launch but maybe another review site could loan you a few hours usage of one of thier review products?

On the outside, your benchmarks are custom scripts..... as are many other websites..... these could be edited to highlight one brand's strength next to the other's weakness (say the NV card has greater fill rate, or handels vertex shaders better or something, use scripts that handicap one product vs another)

Well.... we need some standard against that happening....

Re: Vindicated indeed

D PV — 2005-10-06T10:29:46-05:00

Parker,

I don't think I understood you as well as I should (unclear?), so despite that I will make my statement anyways: The X1800XT is starting at $700 USD, meaning the prices, as they stand, are not "close". Plus, it will not be released until November the 5th. As my high-school friends would say, they are boned.