Hardware Analysis - FSB or CPU Freq, what is better to Overclock?

Re: FSB or CPU Freq, what is better to Overclock?

angryhippy — 2004-05-31T05:01:42-05:00

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Re: FSB or CPU Freq, what is better to Overclock?

Bert Mouler — 2004-04-11T22:59:02-05:00

Get the Thermaltake Extreme Spirit Chipset Cooler if you get a new M/B.

Re: FSB or CPU Freq, what is better to Overclock?

gsmj_uk — 2004-04-05T19:02:09-05:00

Oh well there goes my chipset........poooooof! up in smoke....almost!

Sorry Payton but I will not be able to post any more results for a while as my mobo chipset almost went up in smoke....

I just got my new kingston hyper x (the ram you suggested) ram installed and its all gone pear shaped already. I am not kidding, I installed my new RAM and could smell that hot melting smell after 5 minutes of my PC running. So I tried all compnents in my other machine and all seemed to be just fine.... I removed the cpu and tested and all okay, removed the chipset heatsink and well.....DAMN!!! BURNT CHIPSET!!

I thought that my relatively new chipset heatsink would keep the heat under control :Swiftech MCX 159!!!! Guess not. I the PC booted fine with the CPU @ 3.3 Ghz, ram @ 5:4 Timings 2.5, 7 , 3, 3. I was able to boot into Windows with the Game accelerator set to Turbo mode. I could not boot with these settings when the ram timings were running on 1:1. The annoying thing is that I just know that my machine can almost hit 17000 on 3D Mark 01. I was looking forward to the next stage of testing with the new Ram but well I guess thats overclocking for you....despite what the anti overclocking community say, I am really not too concerned because I get to buy a new motherboard now.......Abit IC7-Max 3 here I come!!! Now I have time to mod my case as well as graphics card until I scrape the cash together for my new mobo!!!!

Payton thanks a million for your help, I know know how and where to make changes to increase my machines performance.....your advise has been invaluable.

I'm already looking forward to posting my new results with my new hardware when it arrives...Keep me posted on the results with your new processor.

Cheers

Greg

Re: FSB or CPU Freq, what is better to Overclock?

Carter Sudeith — 2004-04-04T05:13:05-05:00

Hey bert, long face no friends!

Re: FSB or CPU Freq, what is better to Overclock?

Bert Mouler — 2004-04-04T04:56:52-05:00

Hey Carter long time no see!

Re: FSB or CPU Freq, what is better to Overclock?

Carter Sudeith — 2004-04-04T02:54:06-05:00

The bert sold the system for $1800 and built his dual opteron.

Re: FSB or CPU Freq, what is better to Overclock?

Bert Mouler — 2004-04-04T02:08:14-05:00

I would recommend overclocking the FSB. It is a little slower but a lot more stabile. I used to have a PC with a 2600+ OCed to a 3600+. I had my multiplier at 10x and my FSB at 460MhZ.

Re: FSB or CPU Freq, what is better to Overclock?

angryhippy — 2004-03-22T11:19:17-05:00

Go into PC Health Status window in the bios. Set the fan fail Alarm Selectable to CPU fan. Enable Shutdown when CPU fan fails. The shutdown temps depend on cooling and other stuff. I have my CPU Shutdown temp set to 60, and the Warning temp set to 57. If you have the Winbond Hardware Doctor installed from the mobo CD, you can set max and min for all your temps, fan speeds, and voltages. Keep me up to date on how it's going.

Re: FSB or CPU Freq, what is better to Overclock?

gsmj_uk — 2004-03-22T10:23:49-05:00

Hi Payton

Thanks for the last batch of info, it has helped loads yet again!

Okay first thing....my memory is or atleast was in Dual Channel mode (it lists this on the boot screen)....I have unfortunately had to give it back to a colleague at work....so i am back to my s**tty Samsung Ram 3500 which should have been able to run in Dual channel but cannot .....bye...bye benchmarks!!!

I have the n/b strap set to CPU which works fine, and actually will not work if I set it any differently? I tried to alter the PSB setting but I cannot boot at anything other than what the CPU decides itself...but that is not a problem.

I have set the DRAM ratio at 5:4, which takes me into clock heaven !! As well as adjusting this I have increased the CPU Voltage at 1.6 V. i have been able to push the FSB up to 226 ( I think....cannot remember and I'm using another machine at the moment....more updates later today I think) I have the CPU @ 3.177 and will be looking to push this over 3.2 later today. I have a good feeling that it can be pushed quite a bit more....okay i have almost a 400 Mhz clock increase already but I dont think its finished yet!!

I am taking this slowly, and putting the PC through its paces by running thorough benchmarks with Sisoft Sandra Burn in runs, as well as 3D Mark runs to make sure that I have no stability issues.

I have come to realise that my memory is total p**s with a capital P !! So after doing some reviews I have decided to go down the Kingston HyperX path. Pretty much every review gives the ram Editors choice awards so i cant really go wrong for the money!! I have ordered 2 x 256 Dual Channel Kingston HyperX 4000 so I am looking forward to the arrival of those. I am not really going to be able to get far using my current memory sticks. After using the Dual channel Crucial i have seen the light so to speak!! I am not really prepared to play with the timings on my current memory as its not worth the effort I am sorry to say.

Benchmarks so far:
PC Mark 2002 : CPU - 7578 RAM - 7732

Other Bench mark bests: (not with the most recent settings)
PC Mark 2004 : 4692 (free version - no separate CPU / RAM Scores)
3D Mark 2001 SE : 15725
3D Mark 2003 : 5421
Aqua Mark 3D : 43,016 (CPU 9472 / GPU 5562)

I will keep on testing, and try pushing the speed as much as possible with the current memory! We will really see some improvements with the Kingston HyperX I am sure!!! When do you plan on buying the new CPU????? Oh....I believe that the maximum CPU temperature you should really hit is 50oC, well I am running at 42.5 maximum so far so I think there a some room. Do you have any recommendations for where you should put the limit on CPU temps???

Thanks again for your help Payton

Re: FSB or CPU Freq, what is better to Overclock?

angryhippy — 2004-03-18T19:14:00-05:00

Are you showing that the dual channel is active in the post when you start up. You know the memory has to be in the 1-3 or 2-4 slots for dual channel.. As for the N/B strap, it doesn't change the CPU, it sets the parameters for the CPU and the memory controller in the north bridge to interact. Set it to PSB400 and see what happens. At that setting are you able to get the DRAM ratio to 5:4. If not try a different setting. You want to be able to set that at 5:4. That will underclock you memory and give you more leeway to raise the CPU clock. That way you can take it higher before the memory hits PC3200. I'm really interested in how you do. I'm getting a new processor next month and I'm trying to decide. It will be a 2.8 but I'm wondering if the 533MHz FSB will have more room to push than the 800. My 1.8 only has a 400 but I am running it at 625. So with the clock set at 156 and my DRAM ratio at 3:4 I'm running the RAM at 390, just a tad underclocked. And I only had to push the V Core to 1.625. When you up the V Core, check the voltage in the PC Health Status section of the Bios. The settings on the soft menu are a little off on my board. I have to set it at 1.675 to get the 1.625. Make sure you save changes and reboot before you check as the settings won't change until you do. My board lets me play with the CAS latency and the Act to precharge settings, but wheever I try to change theRAS# to CAS# Delay or RAS# Precharge the BIOS shuts down and I have to reset it. It doesn't like those two to be messed with. My memory is 2-3-3-6 but it runs at 2-3-3-5

My current PCMark 2002 scores are: CPU 6865, Memory 8053, and HDD 1440. Thats with the CPU running at 2.813GHz. Give you a reference point.

Re: FSB or CPU Freq, what is better to Overclock?

gsmj_uk — 2004-03-18T15:45:02-05:00

Hi Payton,

Thanks for the help, I have already been seeing improvements...can you please give me a little more advice?

Okay the story so far:

I have set the n/b strap....its been manually selected, but is still on cpu as when I set it to fsb 800 it wont boot into windows. I have set the dram ratio to 1:1. I have locked the AGP/PCI frequency, as well as manually adjusting the DRAM timings but my ram sucks....more on that in a minute.

My cpu is currently running at 3.02 Ghz (FSB setting at 215) and I currently cannot go any higher, if I try I cannot boot into windows. The funny thing here is that at the higher clock speed my cpu is running cooler than at stock speed??? Very strange!!

Now I was using some lousy Samsung RAM, but I have borrowed some dual channel 2 x 256 3200 Crucial Ram. I have not experimented with any timings their yet, but I think they can be pushed....or atleastd encouraged into working a little faster! After changing the Ram I have achieved better benchmarks on 3D Mark 2001 SE, As well as 03 & Aqua mark 3D which is encouraging, a definate combination of the new memory and faster cpu as well as new GPU drivers.

I can Overclock the GPU and my maximum settings are 442/807 which I think is pants. When I overclock the GPU 3D Mark 03 cannot handle the SPACE STATION test and locks up....I have tried previously to increase the voltage to 1.6V but no luck. I am damn p**sed off with the fact that the madshrimps review of the card throws back some higher results using the same card when my machine is better specification

I realise that I will probably have to increase the voltage to my CPU to get a higher clock speed?? Or do you think I have to tweak elsewhere first??? If you got time can you give me some advice on the following...please?

1: n/b strap is currently set on cpu but I imagine that with my cpu it should be set to 800, or if I set it as 533 will I have more overclocking room due to the fact that the FSB is underclocked??? What do you recommend?

2: I am going to buy some new ram this month, and will go for 1 gig. I have already seen a big improvement by using 2 x 256 Dual channel 3200 Ram. A number of reviews have seen Dual channel rigs with 2 x 256 up against 2 x 512 sticks and shown no apparent benefit of double quantity. My thought was that perhaps 4 x 256 in Dual channel should in theory be faster given the testing scenarios I have seen???

What do you think??? Thanks again for the help again Payton, I really appreciate your help

Cheers

Greg

Re: FSB or CPU Freq, what is better to Overclock?

angryhippy — 2004-03-16T19:22:49-05:00

Check out this article. What they seem to be suggesting is that Intel performance gets a big increase from fast ram unlike AMD. If I had more money I would have gone for the Kingston HyperX KHX C2-2-2-5. And I would have gone for PC3500 so I would have more room to work the CPU before I got to where I was overclocking the RAM. I notice that once you get into the real high frequency ram the cas timings get slower. I guess it's because the bigger bandwidth can handle more info. I don't know. I'm not one of those programmer guys that went to school and learned all this stuff out of books. I just kinda learn as I go. And do a lot of reading on the net. I also can sit here all day and tweak and benchmark and tweak and on and on till I find the best settings for my stuff. Everyone thinks there is some magic setting that works for everything but it's really trial and error. But the Geil Golden Dragon was great at $188 and I'm just a poh boy. The lifetime guarantee is worth the extra dough too.The Ram makers have packaging trips to watch for too. You can get a gig of Ram 2X512 but they aren't going to be the perfect kind of match you want for optimizing dual channel. The 2X512 boxed sets that are for DC will say so. The others are for people without dual channel boards that just want a gig of matched memory. It's like NASCAR sorta. Chevys on two teams are basically Chevys but not matched twins like on one team with two Chevys, one a backup but set up exactly the same.. That's kind of a dumb analogy but anyway here check out this article.

http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20040119/index.html

Re: FSB or CPU Freq, what is better to Overclock?

gsmj_uk — 2004-03-16T10:58:26-05:00

Hi Payton,

I'm so glad that someone else knows how to get round this. Abit are always being recommended as great overclockers boards but I guess you really gotta know whats going on and I really appreciate your help.

Like I said I think in my last post, the 2.4 Celeron overclocked like an absoulute dream where as my new CPU is a little more stubborn.

At the moment I realise that the weakest part of my system is the RAM. But I think my credit card can handle something far better. I had a look at Geil Dragon ram, as an additional point what do you think about your ram, in heind sight would you buy the same again or go for something else?? I'm looking at OCZ and Corsair currently..OCZ Dual Channel 4000 (2x 512) apparently are fantastic..what do you think?

I will start making the suggested changes tonight. I have moved the PC to my desk as I have already reset the bios about 30 times in the last week. I got a new note book to record the changes. Thanks a million for your help really appreciate it.

I will keep you posted.

Greg.

Re: FSB or CPU Freq, what is better to Overclock?

angryhippy — 2004-03-15T19:43:34-05:00

Hey Greg problems with the IS7 huh? A couple of things. On the soft menu page set your n/b strap to a setting that allows you to manually set the DRAM ratio to 1:1 If you are OCing the CPU and this is set to by CPU, you will start overclocking your RAM and get the shut down reset bios deal. 1:1 will give you more room to OC the CPU because you will actually have your RAM running underclocked slightly at 800FSB. Also take your AGP Ratio off of Auto and put it on fixed. That will lock your AGP and PCI frequency at 66/33. Otherwise you are overclocking the bus and that will cause stability problems too, although you do have a good video card. But you can OC that manually right? Better control. After you have done that go to Advanced chipset features and change the DRAM timing Selectable to Manual, and set your RAM timings manually CAS RAS and all that.. The board doesn't like lower settings on RAS to CAS or RAS Precharge, but you can lower the act to precharge delay. I have Geil Golden Dragon dual channel RAM that cost a bunch, but I still cannot run the game accelerator at anything past stock (auto). You may have better luck. Pull the case out of the cubby hole before you start all this because you are probably going to have to reset the bios a few times to get it all sorted out. Post back if you have probs or questions. Oh ya I am running a 1.8 at 2.888GHz with an IC7 so I've kinda been here and understand where you are coming from and am glad to help if I can.

Re: FSB or CPU Freq, what is better to Overclock?

gsmj_uk — 2004-03-15T16:08:43-05:00

Hi can someone out there help me please????

My system

PSU: Antec True Blue 480W
MB: Abit IS7
CPU: 2.8GHZ Pentium 4 800 FSB
GPU: Club 3D FX 5900 XT
Ram: 2 x 512 MB Samsun 3500

Okay, now I used to have a 2.4 Celeron which overclocked like a dream, but this new cpu is a RAT. I have tried overclocking the FSB, but I can even boot into windows after doing this.....It wont even let me into the bios, but it will atleast boot!

I have tried increasing the voltage to the CPU but only up to 1.7V. I have also tried to get a better overclock on my GPU but raising it from 1.5 to 1.6 shows no improvement.

I am kind of lost, and similar systems which seem bellow par compared to mine score higher on 3D Mark01/03, except my Aquamark score is always higher than those systems.

Please help.

Many Thanks

Greg