Hardware Analysis - Microsoft to "Nag" Users of Legitimate Copies of Windows

Re: Microsoft to "Nag" Users of Legitimate Copies of Windows

john albrich — 2006-07-13T11:24:27-05:00

"John, I'm sure that you would agree that the manufacturers/coders/vendors have a right to protect themselves. It's just the manner in which they try to do so is intrusive. If they could do so in a manner that was non-intrusive, it is my belief that they would chose that couse."

As I've indicated before, I own patents and copyrights myself, and I do fully appreciate IP protection. But, I don't plan to write code to shutdown people's systems, brand them as thieves, etc. I don't have the right to hurt someone because it was REPORTED to me (by an unreliable source, I might add) that he stole something from me. (And causing financial loss and reputation harm IS hurtful)

If I suspect someone is stealing from me, I'll file for the appropriate sanctions, criminal and/or civil. If necessary, I'll try to take them to civil court as needed and as provided by IP law. The courtroom is the appropriate venue where guilt or innocence will be determined, and any remedies or punitive actions initiated. If I plan to do so, I'd better be damn sure I've got solid evidence backing up my claims.

It is the lengths they are willing to go to, the uncontrolled acquisition of personal data, the potential abuse and remarketing of those data, the intrusiveness of the system, the adverse impact their software can have, taking unilateral punitive and damaging action on the ALLEGATION that something has been stolen, and more that are the main issues. Having a pop-up appear that effectively labels the computer owner a thief is a major issue. The wording was ill-chosen, and as I've said before, libel.

What they are doing bypasses the safeguards of the IP laws and US court system. Having to prosecute through the courts helps ensure that the IP owner has done their homework and has a valid case. If enough evidence exists that a criminal act has been committed, then help from the FBI and federal enforcement and prosecution is available. They are also free to pursue a civil action.

The "rights" that they have to protect their IP are defined by the laws in that area. Taking pre-emptive, unitlateral actions could be construed as an acknowledgement that they don't have sufficient evidence to demonstrate a crime or IP theft has been actually committed. I can see that WGAP would be perceived as an inexpensive, shotgun approach to the perceived problem.

In my opinion, they are bypassing the very strong IP protections afforded by the US legal system and in doing so, unilaterally and recklessly endangering the ability of consumers to conduct business, needlessly costing the customers time and money, and putting at risk customer data and privacy...all based on the often errroneous findings of autonomous software.

Whether or not some users consider theft of IP as less of a crime than shoplifting is not the issue. Whether they actually stole anything is.

Re: Microsoft to "Nag" Users of Legitimate Copies of Windows

Gerritt — 2006-07-13T06:00:39-05:00

The Applications level BS that you folks seem to be complaining about isn't new....
Have any of you heard about something called "VMS"? It was an OS that demanded per string/appllication/user specific security settings that made it a multi-day process to permit a new user to access anything.
This does not provide for ease of use across several servers/domains, so something called UNIX came about.
In the same time period ARPA net came into being.
Since then the CLIENT has become paramount, so now we have windows, the Internet, and services.
Since the CLIENT became paramount, we are continually fighting viruses, malware, and licensing on a much higher level.
"We" being the computing and vendor communities.

John, I'm sure that you would agree that the manufacturers/coders/vendors have a right to protect themselves. It's just the manner in which they try to do so is intrusive. If they could do so in a manner that was non-intrusive, it is my belief that they would chose that couse.
It's the failure of the previous manners of protection that has led us to this present situation.

They are less wrong than the user community in that the users continually try to get what they provide for free...It's sad that we have to be NAGGED, but most CLIENTS DO feel it's less wrong to load a $10K application that they do not own the rights to, than would say stealing a piece of $.05 candy from a store.

Go figure....

Gerritt

Re: Microsoft to "Nag" Users of Legitimate Copies of Windows

john albrich — 2006-07-12T19:20:46-05:00

I too, Matt.

As time goes by, Windows seems to take more and more time to maintain, and Microsoft seems to keep taking wrong turns as far as complexity, problems, security, and support go. It also seems to treat customers as criminals first, and as valued clients as an afterthought.

Microsoft's latest actions and publicly revealed support strategies gave me the incentive to revist the entire Linux distro scene. It is very encouraging.

The newer Linux distros (personal and corporate) are vastly improved and keep getting better, easier to use, and require less setup and maintenance time than previous distros. The degree of technical knowledge required to successfully implement a Linux install has also been significantly reduced, and the secondary support in fora, guides, and books has really increased within the last few years.

Re: Microsoft to "Nag" Users of Legitimate Copies of Windows

BrinNutz — 2006-07-12T18:40:36-05:00

LOL...I still haven't allowed Microsoft to install the Genuine Advantage on any of my PC's...=)

Screw them..

Re: Microsoft to "Nag" Users of Legitimate Copies of Windows

Reason — 2006-07-12T18:38:23-05:00

Too late. I'm in the process of learning Ubuntu and fully intend to keep most of my computing (minus games and possibly photoshop) over on the Linux side. Screw MS, their DRM, their bulls**t licensing, their overpriced OSes, and their questionable ethics.

Re: Microsoft to "Nag" Users of Legitimate Copies of Windows

Oneder Downunder — 2006-07-12T18:29:38-05:00

XP pirate checks dropped

MICROSOFT has dropped Big Brother-style plans to track down pirated copies of Windows XP, dumping elements of its Windows Genuine Advantage Notification after they ignited a firestorm of controversy.

The stealth application, introduced with auto updates in Australia in April as part of a pilot scheme, "phoned home" every time the computer was booted to confirm that the operating system was genuine.

If the software was pirated it triggered a series of irritating warnings. Now Microsoft has reacted to user anger by switching off the boot-up check.

The company has retained another tool, WGA Validation, which checks back periodically with Microsoft headquarters.

http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,19670853%5E153...5E,00.html

Re: Microsoft to "Nag" Users of Legitimate Copies of Windows

john albrich — 2006-07-12T17:50:02-05:00

Microsoft Patches 18 Security Flaws in Windows, Office

(a large number of them considered CRITICAL) Also affects Office 2000, Office 2003, Excel, and more.

Whoops! Again.
Now, how well will the new version of WGAP handle these?

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2006/07/patches_fix...flaws.html
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/update/bulletins/200607.mspx
http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybrid.aspx?storyID=urn:n...amp;rpc=44

Re: Microsoft to "Nag" Users of Legitimate Copies of Windows

john albrich — 2006-07-06T14:44:32-05:00

edited Original Post to update with this item on 2nd US lawsuit and a "copycat" worm
http://www.thechannelinsider.com/article/Microsoft+WGA+Attract...535_1.aspx

Re: Microsoft to "Nag" Users of Legitimate Copies of Windows

john albrich — 2006-07-04T10:12:23-05:00

I edited the original post to add info about a lawsuit recently filed in the US seeking class-action status.

Re: Microsoft to "Nag" Users of Legitimate Copies of Windows

FordGT90Concept — 2006-07-02T03:19:36-05:00

In any case, binary data is about the only medium that we can make 1:1, lossless copies. If Microsoft is intending to prevent illicit use of their software and succeeds, they deserve a very big award. XD

Realistically, most software protections only make users mad and have a very high rate of failure of achieving what they intend to. The only route of protection that works consistently is a hardware key but, they increase production costs and present hardware compatibility issues. Then again, if hardware keys were widely implemented, I wouldn't be surprised if some software was made to circumvent it as well. Microsoft is fighting a losing battle here so why don't they just trust their users and visa versa--like it was with all software until mid-1990's

Re: Microsoft to "Nag" Users of Legitimate Copies of Windows

Michael A. — 2006-07-02T02:10:25-05:00

My high school computer teacher and I were having a discussion recently over e-mail. It turns out that the corporate license keys that the school had installed on twenty-three computers were all apparently "illegitimate." I managed the network there when I was in tenth grade, installing XP on all twenty-three of those machines. The remaining seven license keys were distributed to some of the teachers and me with the principal�s permission. (I use said key on my desktop.) I find it kind of frustrating that our school spent somewhere around $4,000 on those license keys several years ago only to be called pirates later. After contacting Microsoft he was able to get the keys authenticated for the school and for his and my computer, but it�s still sort of frustrating to know that Microsoft is just assuming that certain corporate key users are �pirates�.

Re: Microsoft to "Nag" Users of Legitimate Copies of Windows

Hans Moleman — 2006-07-01T18:09:06-05:00

What can I say guys, this is how companies work when people have no choice but to buy their product. Hell, gasoline could go up to $10 a gallon and people would still buy it. I am a legitimate user of Windows XP but it seems like there's a new genuine advantage piece of garbage installing every week.

Sure I'm legit, I have nothing to hide, but that doesn't mean they should be able to invade my privacy just to be safe. I don't own stolen property, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to invite the police over to check my place for it every week. I like my privacy and I spent alot of money for this software. I shouldn't be punished for it. I'll be so happy when another company releases a decent operating system to compete with Windows.

On a side note my friend's mother brought her computer to a shop becuase it was having problems with viruses. A week after getting it back she started getting the nagging popups saying her copy of Windows is not legitimate. I can't believe some of these crappy computer shops will actually install pirated software on people's computers without their knowledge and charge them for it. THOSE are the people who need to be reported to Microsoft.

MEGA ABSURDITY---Sending Microsoft an Email Support Question Now Requires Accepting the License Agre

john albrich — 2006-07-01T13:17:54-05:00

I'm just including this in this thread, because it is yet another example of Microsoft's pervasive grabbing of GLOBAL authorizations for the simplest of actions, including actions (like sending an EMAIL) that have nothing to do with software licensing, and forcing customers to re-agree to invasive licensing agreements each time they need to do something...regardless of whether it even uses any product software or not.

For the first time in quite a while, I needed to communicate to Microsoft with an EMAIL. So, I went to the online support page, and went to the appropriate EMAIL submittal link:

http://support.microsoft.com/contactus/?WS=communities
"Contact a support professional by PHONE or E-MAIL for help if you purchased the product separately."

I was then directed to and had to click on the Win XP Professional link at:
http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?ln=en-us&pri...rid=185522

I then clicked on the "Start Email Request" button.

I expected to be taken to your standard online email data entry form...you know....the kind virtually every other company that isn't Microsoft uses? It asks for your name, etc. your topic, and then you hit "send"???

To my complete surprise, when I clicked on that "Start EMAIL" link, I was directed to THIS page:
https://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?med=online&...s&as=1

That page is A LICENSE AGREEMENT....WHICH YOU MUST ACCEPT, IN ORDER TO SUBMIT AN EMAIL.

This is just part of it:

"In order for your Microsoft Support Professional to effectively diagnose your problem, some machine configuration data AND PERSONALLY IDENTIFIABLE INFORMATION will need to be collected. For more information about the data collection and use practices, please refer to the Privacy Statement."

"This Terms of Use Agreement ("AGREEMENT" ) is a legal agreement between you and Microsoft Corporation, which governs: 1) your access to and receipt of support, including Microsoft�s remote access to your system to analyze problems, sources of problems, and when appropriate, to fix problems (collectively the �SUPPORT� ) ; and 2) your use of documents (�Documents�), support software in the form of hotfixes, updates, bug fixes, workarounds, patches, or other software that Microsoft provides to you in the course of providing Support or which is otherwise located on this website (collectively the �SOFTWARE" ) By clicking on "I accept" you agree to be bound by the terms of this AGREEMENT. In addition, by utilizing SUPPORT or this website, you will be deemed to have accepted the terms of this AGREEMENT. If you do not agree to the terms of this AGREEMENT, you are not authorized to use this website or SOFTWARE"

I'll repeat this bit...

"In addition, by utilizing SUPPORT or this website, you will be deemed to have accepted the terms of this AGREEMENT. If you do not agree to the terms of this AGREEMENT, you are not authorized to use this website or SOFTWARE"

So, if you dont' agree to the LICENSE you can't even send an directed Email to the support group, let alone use the online support system.

Things are pretty mucked-up when it's FAR easier to just re-order a zero-cost 2nd copy of the WinXP Pro SP2 CD, than it is to ask what happened to my first order.

Microsoft is beginning to make me feel like I'm in a Douglas Adams novel. Why should I have to re-authorize Microsoft to have access to information on my computer just in order to send them an EMAIL?

Maybe it's just because it's late, I'm still recovering from eye procedures, my pain meds have worn off a bit, or I'm just cranky today...but these increasingly frequent global-scope Microsoft re-licensing requirements for any and everything are becoming increasingly offensive.

p.s.- I might mention, that if I'm interpreting the license correctly, Microsoft would then be re-licensed to install virtually anything it wants to on my computer, INCLUDING WGAP, even if I don't want it on my systems. After all, WGAP is addressing a "problem". It just happens to be a Microsoft revenue problem...not an OS functional problem.

edited to remove emoticons. Sorry about the multiple edits.

Re: Microsoft to "Nag" Users of Legitimate Copies of Windows

Ecosse — 2006-07-01T11:28:25-05:00

Poor Microsoft are just not getting good press now are they.

I've got it, cut 75% off your fees and you can cut piracy of your products by round about the same margin.

I'm sure no one will ever try copy Vista cos that'd be bad.

Re: Microsoft to "Nag" Users of Legitimate Copies of Windows

Shadow_Ops_Airman1 — 2006-07-01T06:36:57-05:00

check this crap out, not good for MS at all http://www.driverheaven.net/showthread.php?s=9f04b286a3d6e81ec...p;t=110539