Hardware Analysis Community Forums http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/66336/ 2008-07-24T11:20:17-05:00 http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/66336/ http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/halogo.gif text/html 2007-04-18T19:18:56-05:00 Rod Corless http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/66336/?l=1#486935 I forgot, for those who use Vista for business purposes Microsoft elected not to include Hyperterminal. <br /> <br /> Hilgraeve (Hyperterm) is now selling it on the side, there are other terminal emu's out there but don't work in Vista's O/S.<br /> <br /> text/html 2007-04-18T13:49:22-05:00 Stephen Edwards http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/66336/?l=1#486864 I work for a small corportation. I am fortunate enough that we replace our computers every three to four years. I will have machines that run Vista later this quarter. Unfortunately we will be install XP on them until next year, as most of our applications do not work with Vista. It will take time for our software people to get some apps to run with IE7. That was another nightmare when Microsoft forced that out as a critical update. On a gamer note, I will not be updating to Vista until the get the multiple monitor issue resolved. I love Eve Online spanned across two 20&quot; monitors. I still can't get Vista to do that. text/html 2007-04-18T12:30:36-05:00 John Ingram http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/66336/?l=1#486853 Well, as a retro and modern PC gamer, I have a dual boot win98 and XP system. Over the years I have gained more respect for Windows 98, and certainly while games came out that would run in 98 and XP, I would almost always end up playing them in 98. The game was smoother, the sound was crisper and the crashes fewer.<br /> <br /> I need Win98 less now, as with DOSBox you can play most DOS games without a problem in XP.<br /> <br /> But then I wonder if that very utility is the reason for the continuing decline in new PC game sales and the growth on <a href="/action/r/http://www.ebay.com/">eBay</a> and elsewhere are growing very fast! text/html 2007-04-18T09:45:02-05:00 Auron Johnson http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/66336/?l=1#486837 there are alot of nay sayers about vista but these people are the same people 5 years ago saying the same thing about xp (eg. xp is just a pretty version of win 2000) . windows 95 to windows vista or mac os wateva &amp; linux havent really changed much at all over the past 15 years, we still use the same features from all these OS's the only thing that has changed is that they have been updated &amp; added more usless features.<br /> <br /> over all i think vista is doing alot better then xp ever did when it was first released, all the computers i have built with it or upgraded to have worked perfect, the only problem i ever faced with is drivers. 99% of the programs i have installed on vista have worked fine, proberly not as well when running them in xp but good enought for a os that has only been out for 2 months.<br /> <br /> but if you use linux or mac os then keep using them &amp; quit saying &quot;insert ms os here&quot; will be the end of microsoft because i still remember people saying it when windows 98 came out &amp; microsoft is still here. text/html 2007-04-18T06:32:51-05:00 John Ingram http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/66336/?l=1#486807 This is the problem: A game that sells 5 times the next game will get called 'casual' as though that doesn't count, and a game that sells 5 times less, or even more than 5 times less is still seen as a huge hit because it's 'hardcore',<br /> <br /> PC games sales have halved in 15 years and if you take the SIms and Zoo Tycoons and bejewelled, etc 'casual games' out of the total is is more like a 50% drop in the last 10 years!<br /> <br /> Sometimes I wonder if PC gamers are their own worst enemies.... And with regards Crysis running on a DX9, well, that is a) where all the hype is isn't it? That's what everybody's talking about in the media, 'the first Vista DX9 game!', I think not! And 2) Practically all PC gamers from 'casual' to 'hardcore' will have to either upgrade their PC or buy a new one to be able to play the AAA titles due out in the second half of 2007. Fewer and fewer PC gamers are doing that. Vista only makes the gulf wider. Hence the falling PC game sales - $2 billion 20 years ago, less than $1 billion now. text/html 2007-04-18T00:49:40-05:00 Gerritt http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/66336/?l=1#486761 During Vista's Alpha and Beta releases, there were NO DX10 capable GPUs on the market.<br /> I've got one, and it doesn't seem to be helping for the games or much of any other applications...for now.<br /> Vista also incorporates what were 3rd party applications associated with security, media management, and user control....as well as the DX10 graphical enhancements.<br /> <br /> I'd have to agree with those folks saying that they'd wait for SP1 or SP2, but at the same time Vista is only exhibiting the same problems as any other OS upgrade. Heck, look at Mac OS9 vs 10.x....<br /> <br /> Gerritt text/html 2007-04-17T22:42:47-05:00 phil http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/66336/?l=1#486742 ^<br /> |<br /> |_ : to that post up there:<br /> <br /> i'd reply specifically to the ad's but i can't see them (IE7+IEpro) .. anyways, sanders not knocking vista, he's just writing about a fact.<br /> <br /> the majority of office pc's are running PIII's with 128mb of ram.. and as such are not capable of running vista. text/html 2007-04-17T21:35:43-05:00 Bill Speers http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/66336/?l=1#486731 this is a good article. I love how you're bashing vista like crazy while its advertized all over your site. 5 vista ad's on the right, intellitext ad's about vista embedded in the article with ms live search in the bottem. Good stuff, and im sure your advertisers are going to really love this! text/html 2007-04-17T21:31:26-05:00 Bobby http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/66336/?l=1#486729 You don't need a DriectX 10 card to run Vista. Whoever told you that is full of it. (<b>Edit:</b> Sorry, didn't read your post correctly, Disregard this line. <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile6.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=":~" title=":~">)<br /> <br /> Crysis will be able to run in DX9 and DX10 modes.<br /> <br /> Sims is meant to be a casual game, where Crysis and the like is intended to be a more &quot;hardcore&quot; game. text/html 2007-04-17T20:09:32-05:00 John Ingram http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/66336/?l=1#486718 DublinGunner - you are saying your PC can run Vista flawlessly and doesn't need a DX10 card and 2GB RAM and can use a SB LIve card.<br /> <br /> But I didn't talk about running Vista with a 2GB and DX10 card and a modern soundcard. I said running a modern game on Vista will need that. That game will have to run on top of Vista. And it will be very soon, given the hype over Crysis (to help the OS and the new DX10 cards which is why the PC games media hypes games like this) that games start needing DX10, becuase games companies have always believed they can drive the hardware.<br /> <br /> But as was shown when games went to CD from floppy too quick to cause the first PC gaming recession, went to DVD only too quick to cause the first small chasm between the home PC gamer and PC games (ie when the Sims started it's journey of becoming the biggest selling game of all, and funnily enough, a game that has always run on an average home PC!) and the follwoing years where gaming has demanded more and more hardware investement for less and less gameplay and more and more shallow corridor blasting. FPS or FPS or FPS as a genre range and killing and killing and killing as a mantra. text/html 2007-04-17T18:47:07-05:00 DublinGunner http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/66336/?l=1#486684 John Ingram said: <div class="quote">Even with gaming my friend, you are wrong. If every PC gamer rushed to upgrade everytime it was required, why is retro and independent games, that require less hardware, and games like the Sims and Zoo Tycoon and various implementations of Civilizations, all the big growth/big sellers of the last 2/3 years?<br /> <br /> The fact is Sanders arguments could be easily made for the gaming market. Gamers don't even have the minimum requirements for Vista and have certainly, by a large majority, not been willing to spend the £1,000/$1,500 they would have to spend on a new PC that had the required VIsta, 2 gig ram and SATA hard drives and a powerful PCI-Express DX10 video card. Oh, and only the latest, most expensive soundcard will have to do too!<br /> <br /> If PC gaming hardware requirements were not so high, we would not have the vast growth in retro gaming!<br /> <br /> In any event, it's as much what these publishers are doing with the technology anyway! Oblivion wasn't that much more than Far Cry and Half Life 2, but the hardware demands were doubled! If this new hardware is going to cost $1,000+ to go Vista/2GB/DX10 card and for that you are going to get even more shallow, cookie cutter games, like dare I say it, Crysis, then you have the same problem with the PC games market as you do in the corporate market, very little reason to upgrade and every reason to stay where you are using perfectly adequate software/retro games that will run wonderfully on your current PC.</div><br /> <br /> Considering my other PC (A64 3000+, 1gb ram, old vid card, SB Live!) ran Vista flawlessly, I'll have to make a rebuttal to your argument.<br /> <br /> Vista does not require a)DX10 video card b)high end video card c)2gb ram d)new soundcard<br /> <br /> SO most certainly does not require a new PC to run.<br /> <br /> Sure, you dont wanna upgrade, you dont have to, no need to moan about it though.<br /> <br /> BTW, the reason those retro games etc sell (er, not sure 'sell' is the right word lol) so well is because they are fun. Simple. Most new games are rubbish.<br /> text/html 2007-04-17T18:35:47-05:00 Mike L http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/66336/?l=1#486680 Mark, <br /> <br /> I'm not getting on anyone's case. It's just ridiculous for someone to come out of nowhere and mention 'gaming' like as if it's the only thing a computer was meant to do. Sure, gaming on a computer is fun, but it's not all that a computer is capable of. And once again, the article had nothing to do with gaming - so it's just silly. text/html 2007-04-17T17:17:11-05:00 Bobby http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/66336/?l=1#486658 <b>The following is copied from another post I made in another topic</b><br /> <br /> I know, not everyone is going to have a flawless experience with Vista, but the fact of the matter is: It's still a young operating system. You can't tell me Windows 95/98/2000/XP weren't just as twitchy in the beginning. Give these things time, let the OS mature a bit, send in those error reports, and most of your issues will be worked out.<br /> <br /> On the subject of gaming and DriectX 10, No gamer has to update yet. DirectX 10 isn't out yet, so they can ride the XP wave a little longer. Once DX10 is released, a lot of gamers are going to feel forced to jump on the Vista train. They are by no means obligated. They could stick with DirectX 9 games on XP, as there are quite a few good ones out there. Heck, I still play a few DirectX 7 games. <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile5.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=":P" title=":P"><br /> <br /> The point here is that an upgrade is a choice. If you don't like it, fine, stick with 95/98/2000/XP. There's nothing wrong with that. Microsoft didn't force you to upgrade, so don't complain to them.<br /> text/html 2007-04-17T16:39:58-05:00 CrAsHnBuRnXp http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/66336/?l=1#486649 Mike L said: <div class="quote">S_U_P_E_R X_P said: <div class="quote">Where is the link?<br /> <br /> When DX10 games come on line soon, people will be jumping to Vista like crazy. Also all new computers being sold right now all have Vista x86 &amp; x64 OS's.<br /> <br /> So, yes, we may not be 100% ready for Vista, but we are moving to it ASAP.</div><br /> <br /> Is gaming the only thing that you understand or care about? For god sakes, the article didn't even mention anything about gaming for crying out loud. <br /> </div><br /> Mike L,<br /> <br /> Dont start. I want these series of threads to be kept clean and friendly. Please do not start getting on Super's case.<br /> <br /> The article is about Vista. Gaming has a lot to do about Vista as it offeres DX10. If he or anyone else wants to talk about gaming, let them. Dont jump on them for it. text/html 2007-04-17T16:07:55-05:00 John Ingram http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/66336/?l=1#486644 Even with gaming my friend, you are wrong. If every PC gamer rushed to upgrade everytime it was required, why is retro and independent games, that require less hardware, and games like the Sims and Zoo Tycoon and various implementations of Civilizations, all the big growth/big sellers of the last 2/3 years?<br /> <br /> The fact is Sanders arguments could be easily made for the gaming market. Gamers don't even have the minimum requirements for Vista and have certainly, by a large majority, not been willing to spend the £1,000/$1,500 they would have to spend on a new PC that had the required VIsta, 2 gig ram and SATA hard drives and a powerful PCI-Express DX10 video card. Oh, and only the latest, most expensive soundcard will have to do too!<br /> <br /> If PC gaming hardware requirements were not so high, we would not have the vast growth in retro gaming!<br /> <br /> In any event, it's as much what these publishers are doing with the technology anyway! Oblivion wasn't that much more than Far Cry and Half Life 2, but the hardware demands were doubled! If this new hardware is going to cost $1,000+ to go Vista/2GB/DX10 card and for that you are going to get even more shallow, cookie cutter games, like dare I say it, Crysis, then you have the same problem with the PC games market as you do in the corporate market, very little reason to upgrade and every reason to stay where you are using perfectly adequate software/retro games that will run wonderfully on your current PC.