Hardware Analysis Community Forums http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/69709/ 2008-11-22T17:13:22-05:00 http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/69709/ http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/halogo.gif text/html 2008-01-11T02:44:00-05:00 A Lucas http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/69709/?o=20#525220 Phil said: <div class="quote">The whole point of all this is pretty obvious....AMD Have Fell behind Intel. I'm a BIG Fan of AMD, effective clocks and power consumption mean alot when your on a budget. But at this stage where we're now entering Quadcore and possibly even more, there isnt alot of competition.<br /> <br /> AMD are losing money....pure and simple, Quadcore is almost a year behind intel. and AMD are still developing Tri-core...basically broken Quadcores... AMD's brain wave to make more money? <br /> <br /> ATI now have the 3k series and STILL nvidia's 8800GT beats it in benchmarks. YES I know 3800's ent ATI's top line Cards...YET!!!!! Just how much input would AMD have had in development of ATI GPU's?<br /> <br /> Will we see AMD taking over the market with Spider?...is Motherboards with 4 PCI-E slots a bit too much? <br /> <br /> Every one is entitled to thier opinion and IMO: Ever since ATI developed DX10 GPU's...they ent quite their yet....nvidia got it smack on the money with 8800series. The 3k series is a step forward from nvidia, with DX10.1, PCI-E 2.0. all i can say is, i hope to see ATI beating nvidia in the next generation cards...<br /> <br /> I will be shocked if AMD get sold out or worse Bankrupt (they're a big take over temptation), there are even questions whether AMD are cookin their books. <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile16.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=":/" title=":/"></div><br /> <br /> <br /> Does anybody cringe like I do at the bad spelling and grammar? text/html 2007-11-30T01:04:59-05:00 Yagami Iori http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/69709/?o=20#520838 Dear Sander Sassen,<br /> <br /> I have read your article about Graphic cards and begin to doubt weather AMD's CPU is better than Intel's at the same price. I REALLY think things will or have already happened in AMD's Athlon series.<br /> <br /> As the press and internet said, Athlon x2 5000+ and e4400 are the same price, but their benchmark shows differently. In the game Serious Sam2, Tom's Hardware's bench result is e4400 beats 5000+, but on the other sites are STRONGLY opposite.<br /> <br /> There's a view, which i think it may be not so accurate, is that in some benchs AMD 5000+ uses a NF570 Deluxe or any AMD motherboard higher than $400, while e4400 uses <br /> a poor-family used motherboad, like second-hand 965GZ, or any motherboard around or much lower than $80.<br /> <br /> So as a consumer, which should I choice, or frankly I will TRUST WHICH ONE? text/html 2007-11-28T19:05:31-05:00 Orange Juice http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/69709/?o=20#520741 I think they just needed to respond with <b>something</b> so they went for what they could most easily get, a marketing stunt.<br /> Think it over, it's the cheapest thing if you don't have a real winner, solution no.2 would be research, but that takes more money and considerable amounts of time to reach some satisfying results. Add to that Intel's glorious march from the last years and the only alternative they had in order to 'show the world they are still in the game' was a marketing scam. If it's something i hate, it's these marketing departments, who started by presenting a product's best features so that the consumer gets a better idea about it, and ended up in scamming people to increase sales.<br /> I still wish AMD all the luck, because without a serious competitor for Intel, we can't really talk about choosing a product, can we. <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile1.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=":)" title=":)"><br /> Just think of a world that knows nothing else than Microsoft Operating Systems, that should give you a good idea about what I'm saying. text/html 2007-11-28T18:53:49-05:00 dark41 http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/69709/?o=20#520738 RI Redneck said: <div class="quote">dark41 said: <div class="quote">Umbra said: <div class="quote">GtoX (capt Guns) said: <div class="quote">just too much money to spend, not to mention the electrical bill each month <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile5.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=":P" title=":P"></div><br /> <br /> Okay now y'all talking like kids... Since when did money matter ? Last time i checked <a target="_blank" href="/action/r/http://www.newegg.com/">Newegg</a> was selling single gtx ultras for 780 greenbacks. and thats 1, not 2, not sli. <br /> <br /> And the electrical bill... come f**king on... that made me giggle.. Can we have a serious discussion/commenting here please?</div><br /> <br /> You need to check again. The ultra is nothing more than an overclocked GTX, so not worth the extra cost for most of us who can overclock a GTX to the same specs anyway. 8800Ultra's on <a target="_blank" href="/action/r/http://www.newegg.com/">Newegg</a> range in price from $549 to $799, with most being under $700. The GTX ranges from $489-829 (factory overclocked BFG being the most expensive) with most being around the $550 mark. I consider that a substantial difference and would have a very hard time justifying the more expensive cards.<br /> <br /> And for the record, I'm an adult who cares a great deal about my electric bill and the price of my components. In fact, I think it's irresponsible not to care. Although I have no need for more than a single video card, the 8800GTX will run in SLI for about half the cost of the ATI 2900GT in crossfire. Another substantial difference IMO.<br /> <br /> Not that any of this has much to do with AMD marketing other than the fact their supposedly cheaper 2900GT costs a bundle to run, but that's a very serious conversation from my point of view. <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile1.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=":)" title=":)"><br /> </div><br /> <br /> How is the power consumption of the 2900XT even an issue here. We're talking about the HD 3xxx series, which uses less power than ANY of the comparable cards on the market. So if your REALLY worried about power consumption, then you should be looking at the HD 3870!<br /> <br /> <a class="ext" href="/action/r/http://tinyurl.com/yra7rt" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/yra7rt</a></div><br /> <br /> But you have to give up performance for the 3870.<br /> <br /> I haven't seen a 3870 available for sale here yet, so as far as I'm concerned it's still just a paper launch at this time. But the reviews I've seen and even your own link show the 8800GT performing better with almost identical power consumption. Overclock the 3870 to match the 8800GT performance and I think you're wrong about which will use more power. Not to mention both are still performing under the GTX, so not much of a comparison as I see it. <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile4.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=";)" title=";)"><br /> text/html 2007-11-28T17:36:09-05:00 Phil http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/69709/#520731 The whole point of all this is pretty obvious....AMD Have Fell behind Intel. I'm a BIG Fan of AMD, effective clocks and power consumption mean alot when your on a budget. But at this stage where we're now entering Quadcore and possibly even more, there isnt alot of competition.<br /> <br /> AMD are losing money....pure and simple, Quadcore is almost a year behind intel. and AMD are still developing Tri-core...basically broken Quadcores... AMD's brain wave to make more money? <br /> <br /> ATI now have the 3k series and STILL nvidia's 8800GT beats it in benchmarks. YES I know 3800's ent ATI's top line Cards...YET!!!!! Just how much input would AMD have had in development of ATI GPU's?<br /> <br /> Will we see AMD taking over the market with Spider?...is Motherboards with 4 PCI-E slots a bit too much? <br /> <br /> Every one is entitled to thier opinion and IMO: Ever since ATI developed DX10 GPU's...they ent quite their yet....nvidia got it smack on the money with 8800series. The 3k series is a step forward from nvidia, with DX10.1, PCI-E 2.0. all i can say is, i hope to see ATI beating nvidia in the next generation cards...<br /> <br /> I will be shocked if AMD get sold out or worse Bankrupt (they're a big take over temptation), there are even questions whether AMD are cookin their books. <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile16.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=":/" title=":/"> text/html 2007-11-28T15:17:04-05:00 RI Redneck http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/69709/#520726 dark41 said: <div class="quote">Umbra said: <div class="quote">GtoX (capt Guns) said: <div class="quote">just too much money to spend, not to mention the electrical bill each month <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile5.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=":P" title=":P"></div><br /> <br /> Okay now y'all talking like kids... Since when did money matter ? Last time i checked <a target="_blank" href="/action/r/http://www.newegg.com/">Newegg</a> was selling single gtx ultras for 780 greenbacks. and thats 1, not 2, not sli. <br /> <br /> And the electrical bill... come f**king on... that made me giggle.. Can we have a serious discussion/commenting here please?</div><br /> <br /> You need to check again. The ultra is nothing more than an overclocked GTX, so not worth the extra cost for most of us who can overclock a GTX to the same specs anyway. 8800Ultra's on <a target="_blank" href="/action/r/http://www.newegg.com/">Newegg</a> range in price from $549 to $799, with most being under $700. The GTX ranges from $489-829 (factory overclocked BFG being the most expensive) with most being around the $550 mark. I consider that a substantial difference and would have a very hard time justifying the more expensive cards.<br /> <br /> And for the record, I'm an adult who cares a great deal about my electric bill and the price of my components. In fact, I think it's irresponsible not to care. Although I have no need for more than a single video card, the 8800GTX will run in SLI for about half the cost of the ATI 2900GT in crossfire. Another substantial difference IMO.<br /> <br /> Not that any of this has much to do with AMD marketing other than the fact their supposedly cheaper 2900GT costs a bundle to run, but that's a very serious conversation from my point of view. <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile1.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=":)" title=":)"><br /> </div><br /> <br /> How is the power consumption of the 2900XT even an issue here. We're talking about the HD 3xxx series, which uses less power than ANY of the comparable cards on the market. So if your REALLY worried about power consumption, then you should be looking at the HD 3870!<br /> <br /> <a class="ext" href="/action/r/http://tinyurl.com/yra7rt" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/yra7rt</a> text/html 2007-11-28T14:47:03-05:00 RI Redneck http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/69709/#520725 Hey Phil,<br /> <br /> In Most of the reviews that are available online, the HD3870 compares with the 8800GT in playability while costing less to buy AND operate. Since the HD3870 IS NOT going to be the top-of-the-line HD 3xxx series card, I don't see why you would even draw a comparison between it and TOTL nVidia cards. <br /> <br /> FYI - The HD 3870 uses less power than both the 8800GT and the 8800GTX.<br /> <br /> <a class="ext" href="/action/r/http://www.techspot.com/review/76-asus-radeon-hd-3870/page8.html" target="_blank">http://www.techspot.com/review/76-asus-radeon-hd-3870/page8.html</a><br /> <br /> Also, just curious, but how are you using on board video on a K9N Neo4 when it doesn't have it (MSI doesn't even list that exact model)? Perhaps you have the K9NVG-Neo-V instead. At any rate, it just seemed a little wierd.<br /> <br /> Cheers,<br /> <br /> BT text/html 2007-11-28T06:12:34-05:00 dark41 http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/69709/#520697 Umbra said: <div class="quote">GtoX (capt Guns) said: <div class="quote">just too much money to spend, not to mention the electrical bill each month <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile5.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=":P" title=":P"></div><br /> <br /> Okay now y'all talking like kids... Since when did money matter ? Last time i checked <a target="_blank" href="/action/r/http://www.newegg.com/">Newegg</a> was selling single gtx ultras for 780 greenbacks. and thats 1, not 2, not sli. <br /> <br /> And the electrical bill... come f**king on... that made me giggle.. Can we have a serious discussion/commenting here please?</div><br /> <br /> You need to check again. The ultra is nothing more than an overclocked GTX, so not worth the extra cost for most of us who can overclock a GTX to the same specs anyway. 8800Ultra's on <a target="_blank" href="/action/r/http://www.newegg.com/">Newegg</a> range in price from $549 to $799, with most being under $700. The GTX ranges from $489-829 (factory overclocked BFG being the most expensive) with most being around the $550 mark. I consider that a substantial difference and would have a very hard time justifying the more expensive cards.<br /> <br /> And for the record, I'm an adult who cares a great deal about my electric bill and the price of my components. In fact, I think it's irresponsible not to care. Although I have no need for more than a single video card, the 8800GTX will run in SLI for about half the cost of the ATI 2900GT in crossfire. Another substantial difference IMO.<br /> <br /> Not that any of this has much to do with AMD marketing other than the fact their supposedly cheaper 2900GT costs a bundle to run, but that's a very serious conversation from my point of view. <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile1.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=":)" title=":)"><br /> text/html 2007-11-28T06:10:26-05:00 dark41 http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/69709/#520696 oops text/html 2007-11-28T03:09:17-05:00 G. G. http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/69709/#520686 dark41 said: <div class="quote">Their marketing has been a joke since inception. They don't market enough, and ....... </div><br /> <br /> <br /> But ... But.... But..... their saving ALOT of money which they can use for their R&amp;D.... They dont need to market their stuff because it will sell itself.... <br /> <br /> <br /> Well... THAT's what ALL the FANBOIS says.... <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile4.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=";)" title=";)"> <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile4.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=";)" title=";)"> <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile4.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=";)" title=";)"> <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile4.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=";)" title=";)"> <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile4.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=";)" title=";)"> <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile4.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=";)" title=";)"> <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile4.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=";)" title=";)"> LOL LOL ROFLMA !!!! text/html 2007-11-28T02:48:59-05:00 angryhippy http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/69709/#520684 GtoX (capt Guns) said: <div class="quote">now i ask you angryhippy, to what cost would the whole system add up to... including a powerfull, very stable PSU that can handle for separate graphics card? i still think the GTX would end up winning price-wise... just too much money to spend, not to mention the electrical bill each month <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile5.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=":P" title=":P"></div> <br /> LOL just because it wasn't a joke doesn't mean it isn't a joke. Aside from everything else though, if I had cash, despite their current market position, I'd grab a few hundred shares at $10 right now.The AMD ATI conglomeration is gonna end up with something marketable. Besides despite the dire predictions, AMD just got a very large infusion of investment capitol from a group of investors. Unless they were hoodwinked by the marketing hype (which I doubt) I'm betting they got shown something in the works to make them think the investment will pay off. Investors aren't exactly into charity handouts. Of course if that ends up being the case, remains to be seen. I'd be betting it's gonna be something to do with marrying processing with graphics in a single chip.<br /> text/html 2007-11-28T01:46:33-05:00 dark41 http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/69709/#520681 I don't really see any of this as news. AMD has always been AMD's worst enemy. Their marketing has been a joke since inception. They don't market enough, and when they do nothing they say can be believed. It's just a shame they've taken ATI with them on this ride to (what looks more and more every day like) bankruptsy. <br /> <br /> I still think it's the consumers who lose in the end, as competition dries up for Intel/Nvidia. <br /> <br /> The combination of AMD's shortcomings (failed marketing and inferior products) and Intels marketing genius (fantastic pricing on the C2D/Q6600/Penryn and superior products) has set us up for a world of few choices and out of control pricing. <br /> <br /> Honestly, who's not excited about Nehalem? Intel is in a position to bury AMD at their own game.:/ text/html 2007-11-27T22:53:36-05:00 Charles Johnson http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/69709/#520661 text/html 2007-11-27T22:38:25-05:00 FordGT90Concept http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/69709/#520657 Phil said: <div class="quote">I just dont see why AMD have gone Down hill so quick.... <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile16.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=":/" title=":/"></div><br /> ATI and Intel. ATI dried up all AMD's idle funds and then some. Intel got their game on. AMD has been falling faster than a shooting star ever since.<br /> <br /> AMD shares dipped below $10 ($9.80) today which is the lowest they've been since August 2003. All the bad decisions in the past year and a half finally caught up to them.<br /> <br /> <br /> Edit: Just ran into this:<br /> <div class="quote"><a class="ext" href="/action/r/http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid80_gci1283640,00.html" target="_blank">http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,28914...40,00.html</a><br /> In the survey of 297 enterprise x86 server buyers who work with these systems on a daily basis, 45% described their data centers as &quot;die-hard Intel&quot; shops, but only 13% positioned themselves as &quot;die-hard&quot; AMD&quot; fans. Less than 30% said that processor brand is the most important factor in the purchase of an x86 system, but of those, the majority of respondents strongly favored AMD.</div><br /> AMD definitely lost most hope in the 1000+ processors-in-one-whack (aka enterprise servers) lot too. <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile2.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=":(" title=":("> text/html 2007-11-27T21:54:32-05:00 Phil http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/69709/#520651 Best 2 cards ATI ever made IMO : <br /> X850XT PE (My Best AGP eva)<br /> X1950XTX (What i wish i had bought)<br /> <br /> lol <br /> <br /> Thing is now...It takes AMD/ATI <b>4</b> bloody Cards to beat Nvidia.... i only have AMD cus it was basically half the price of Intel. <br /> <br /> I just dont see why AMD have gone Down hill so quick.... <img src="http://media.hardwareanalysis.com/smilies/smile16.gif" width="14" height="14" border="0" alt=":/" title=":/"><br /> <br /> Fanboys claiming AMD/ATI are better than Intel/nvidia need shooting lol