Hardware Analysis - Why Won't It OC!?

Re: Why Won't It OC!?

McFly — 2008-01-29T23:11:18-05:00

I saw some people running Toledo's at 1.6V or 1.625V, and their temps were quite a bit higher than yours. I'd keep an eye on your temps.

I'm not sure where the limit is, but I'm able to get 2.8GHz out of my Toledo at only 1.375V.

Re: Why Won't It OC!?

Pwnzilla — 2008-01-29T22:32:56-05:00

Yeah my motherboard doesn't have the mem:fsb ratio option so I have to turn down my memory to DDR333 specs so when I overclock the FSB, the memory has some head room.

I don't know the exact way to figure it out but, DDR333 is 166x2 and DDR400 is 200x2 so if I add 50Mhz on the FSB that's (50+166) = 216 x 2 = 432 and my memory is spec'd for DDR433 so I come out with 1Mhz under spec on my memory. As I said I don't know if that is the proper and exact math for it, but it gets you close enough and it works.

If someone does know the exact math on OC'ing memory please post it here.

Also I'm a bit concerned about the 1.35v to 1.55v jump, do any of you know where the danger zone is on these Toledo chips?

Re: Why Won't It OC!?

McFly — 2008-01-29T22:09:56-05:00

Those temps are A-OK.

Why are you running at DDR333? I may have missed that part.

If you run with a Mem/FSB ratio of 160/200 (0.8), then your 250FSB should leave you with your mem at DDR400.

Re: Why Won't It OC!?

Pwnzilla — 2008-01-29T21:47:52-05:00

Hey there, I realize this is about 2-3 weeks late but I got a decent overclock running stable.

Here's what I have it set at currently:

10x Multiplier (from 11x)

250Mhz Core Clock (from 200Mhz)

4x HT Multiplier (from 5x)

1.55v Core (from 1.35v)

DDR333 DC (from DDR400 DC)

Was just curious if jumping the core voltage to 1.55v was in the danger zone or not? My temps under load are in the 30C-40C range which seams fine to me. I really wish I could use a memory ratio so I didn't have to drop my memory settings down to DDR333 but with the OC it's just a bit over spec if I did my math right, so it should be fine.

Just an update, thanks for all the tips, and any others are welcome.

-The Zilla

Re: Why Won't It OC!?

Tam the Bam — 2008-01-06T02:44:00-05:00

Agreed! Dropping the multiplier to 9 or even 8 is a good move.
Chris wot you thinking of? Erm i've not read the whole thread,
but since i seen the "NOOOO Don't drop the multi" I was like WAIT A MIN! Lol

Re: Why Won't It OC!?

Pwnzilla — 2008-01-06T00:48:03-05:00

OK, I've got a stable 2.2 to 2.4 conversion running but this is what I had to do to get a relatively small OC to run:

10x CPU multiplier (from 11x)

240Mhz external clock (from 200Mhz)

1.4v core voltage (from 1.35v, this 1/20 of a volt made it stable)

4x HT multiplier (from 5x)

DDR333 settings (from DDR400)

I'm going to try bumping her up some more on the external clock and see what happens.

I tried 300x9x3 and it hard locked even with a voltage jump, just for the record.

Also after doing all this and say can only get 2.4 or 2.5 is the extra 200-300Mhz respectively even worth the trouble...?

Re: Why Won't It OC!?

adam — 2008-01-05T19:48:56-05:00

Clearly these people like to rate your skill on how long you have been a member more then age,occupation and years of experience clearly prone to direct personal attacks I don't know if I would take to much to heart I have sent you a PM on how best to do this.

Re: Why Won't It OC!?

Mothow — 2008-01-05T18:03:29-05:00

Chris McGee said:

Mothow the Quad G0D said:

Drop the multi down to 10 or 9 and set yor LDT to 3.Put vcore at 1.45v.You should be able to hit 2.5ghz pretty easy Try 10mhz incremments til it gets unstable.Then either back off a little on the FSB or increase the voltage a little to try and get it stable again

Your multi shouldnt be locked downward only past 11X

Noooooo!

Don't drop the multi on it, that's such a huge waste. Those chips aren't starved for bandwidth so dropping the multi will not give you any benefits at all compared to pure clockspeed. Kick the voltage up a notch and slowly raise the fsb until it borks. Raise the voltage a little more and then the fsb again until it borks.

Keep an eye on the temps, if it gets to a point you feel uncomfortable with it then you've found your max overclock.

Here we go again another PCGEEK type overclocker.Im not gonna explain the concept of dropping the multi.Think about it then you will figure it out.

Whats gonna be faster a cpu at 300x9 or a cpu at 11x250,I have tested this many times when i had my 5 differnt AMD 64 systems(1 system at a time) and believe me 300x9x3=2.7ghz beats 250x11x4=2.75ghz everytime

Re: Why Won't It OC!?

Mothow — 2008-01-05T17:52:02-05:00

Pwnzilla said:

I haven't gotten a a chance to mess with it anymore, but I'm thinking that upping the voltage is the route to go in this case. Since when I upped it from 1.35v to 1.4v I saw a difference, may be it just needs a little more juice.

But I'm not sure what you all are reffering to as the LDT, is that another 'name' for the HT speed? I don't remember hearing that acronym before.

Also I keep reading about memory dividers, as I understand what they do, I don't believe my motherboard/CMOS have the option of setting my RAM at a different ratio to keep it's clock close to stock. Could it be called something other than divider or something else not obvious?
Yeah im talking about the HT multilier or is the HTT its been a while since ive OCed witth AMD
Thanks for all the help.

-The Zilla

LDT is the HT or HTT multiplier.Its been awhile since i used AMD 64's.

Dropping the multi lets you ramp the FSB up for better performance 10x240 with give you better performance than 11x 220 anyday
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dubblin gunner explains using LDT

Increasing the LDT will increase the CPU speed, and hence the memory controller, also increasing the memory speed, which can be divided down using a memory divider.

The LDT also increases the HTT frequency, from 200mhz upward. Once again, should this go much further than 1000mhz (200x5multi), you can use the HTT multi (1x -5x) to keep it around the 1000mhz (may be listed as 2000mhz as it is DDR) level.

You should definitley be able to change the LDT frequency, as this is the ONLY way to OC and A64 cpu (except FX series

Re: Why Won't It OC!?

Pwnzilla — 2008-01-05T17:30:51-05:00

Just tried 1.45v with a multiplier of 11x and FSB of 240Mhz with no luck, just a hard lock and a CMOS reset.

But with the FSB set to 220Mhz at 1.45v it booted, but I haven't run any intensive programs to test the stability yet. Going from 2.2 to 2.4 with a 200Mhz increase isn't enough to warrant bumping my voltages up for imo.

I still think it's something to do with my memory speed or timings, everything else seams to be in place. In addition if I turn my memory speed back to DDR333 what is the math on calculating what it's new speed will be with the OC?
Would it just be 333 / 2 = 166 + 40 = 206?

I don't quite understand what lowering my multiplier will do for me. Say I notch it back to 10x by 240, that's still only 2.4Ghz with a 200Mhz gain. My HT will still be 4x240 at 960Mhz, and my memory won't change either since it will still be referencing off 240.

Thanks for any more suggestions.

Re: Why Won't It OC!?

Pwnzilla — 2008-01-05T17:06:08-05:00

Here are my CPU's specs in detail from CPUZ:

Processors Information
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Processor 1 (ID = 0)
Number of cores 2
Number of threads 2 (max 2)
Name AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+
Codename Toledo
Specification AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4400+
Package Socket 939
CPUID F.3.2
Extended CPUID F.23
Brand ID 5
Core Stepping JH-E6
Technology 90 nm
Core Speed 2210.3 MHz (11.0 x 200.9 MHz)
HT Link speed 1004.7 MHz
Stock frequency 2200 MHz
Instructions sets MMX (+), 3DNow! (+), SSE, SSE2, SSE3, x86-64
L1 Data cache 2 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L1 Instruction cache 2 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L2 cache 2 x 1024 KBytes, 16-way set associative, 64-byte line size
FID/VID Control yes
max FID 11.0x
VID range 1.100 V - 1.400 V
Features XD
K8 Thermal sensor yes
K8 Revision ID 4.2

Thought it might help if I knew what revision and stepping I have.

Re: Why Won't It OC!?

Pwnzilla — 2008-01-05T16:36:18-05:00

Re: Why Won't It OC!?

john albrich — 2008-01-05T08:59:28-05:00

Assuming his board allows it, he'll probably try both methods and see which one achieves the best speed/stability.

Don't forget to take a look at
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/69967/
Depending on precisely how you manipulate the system timings may allow you tweak memory with more stability. Observe the warnings.

Re: Why Won't It OC!?

Supreet Virdi — 2008-01-05T08:33:23-05:00

Go with Mothow's advice-- Drop the Multiplier, LDT and start raising your base clock. Increasing LDT won't increase performance much, as it is already overkill, however it may decrease stability if you increase LDT.

Re: Why Won't It OC!?

Chris McGee — 2008-01-05T05:09:08-05:00

Mothow the Quad G0D said: