Hardware Analysis - My Windows Vista Experience: One Year Later.

Re: My Windows Vista Experience: One Year Later.

A_Pickle — 2008-06-10T07:50:26-05:00

I'm inclined to agree with you here. In addition, I think Vista Ultimate has the ability to make full-on restore disks, that allow you to back up your computer in it's current state -- IE, without bloat programs, etc.

Vista's scan features are much nicer in ultimate, as well. I wish I'd have gotten it for my media center -- HP has some of the shoddiest software I've ever seen.

Re: My Windows Vista Experience: One Year Later.

john albrich — 2008-06-10T06:56:34-05:00

A number of people have asked me why I recommend that if one is going to use Vista, then use Vista Ultimate for even home users.

The simplest answer is that while it can require more and "better" hardware than simpler versions, the simpler versions also often do not support using advanced features of some I/O devices. That can be a significant shock in some instances.

For example, while a device may be listed as "supported" by Vista, it can be mis-leading. The advanced scanning and copying functions on multi-function devices (e.g. printer+scanner+copier+FAX+etc) are sometimes not available at all unless one uses the advanced Vista versions (that provide more comprehensive vendor device support). Some vendors don't even provide software for the advanced functions on CD anymore...they rely strictly on functionality provided by Vista premium or ultimate versions, whereas that functionality was included in the CD for WinXP.

In addition, user control of security and networking is also constrained under the simpler versions. Vista Ultimate provides more flexible user control of many system and OS features. You can disable what you don't want to use, whereas with the simpler versions needed features may be unavailable or one may be unable to disable specific features.

Re: My Windows Vista Experience: One Year Later.

Shaun Pasay — 2008-05-08T18:16:49-05:00

I love Vista if you don't have compatable hardware than you are going to be unhappy .I did install an old soundcard an Audigy 2zs and it works great because of drivers found here and Daniel_k .So much better sound than the onboard ac97 alc883 Hd .

Re: My Windows Vista Experience: One Year Later.

Gerritt — 2008-03-24T14:19:09-05:00

John,
By "ready for takeup", I intended that to indicate that if you are investing in a NEW infrastructure, with all new peripherals, systems, SW, etc., then Vista is the only real choice for Microsoft based environments. If initial cost is not an object an Apple 10.5 infrastructure (with integrated bootcamp capabilities) is probably just as, if not better option for some user environments. Alternatively, if initial cost IS an major factor then the newest Ubuntu releases are quite satisfactory for SOHO implementation (with a good IT worker), but not quite ready for the enterprise user environment (IMHO).
I hope this clarifies my position.

Gerritt

Re: My Windows Vista Experience: One Year Later.

A_Pickle — 2008-03-23T22:41:55-05:00

I don't think Vista is necessarily a worthwhile upgrade (for the cost). That said, if you're getting a new computer... I don't see any reason to go XP.

Re: My Windows Vista Experience: One Year Later.

john albrich — 2008-03-23T21:41:50-05:00

TamTheBam said:

John, Jules apologised already for his quote just a few posts up from yours.

Actually, it was an explanation. Not an apology. But, that's not the issue and it's not a problem.

My last post was dealing with statements made...independent of who made them... so the content remains germane.

Re: My Windows Vista Experience: One Year Later.

Tam the Bam — 2008-03-23T20:01:04-05:00

John, Jules apologised already for his quote just a few posts up from yours.

Re: My Windows Vista Experience: One Year Later.

john albrich — 2008-03-23T18:47:09-05:00

McFly said:

...Who was/is arguing that Vista is a 'must-have' upgrade from XP? That's a pretty dumb thing to propose.

I'd agree that it's a pretty dumb thing to propose, yet people have made such claims...directly, and indirectly.

"I just love Vista, and I really cannot believe the number of folk who want to 'downgrade' to XP Pro. I think it is 'future shock' syndrome. They just haven't the brain capacity to want to learn a new system...."

Anyone who says that the reason people don't upgrade to Vista is because they are intellectually incapable of learning the new OS is by default arguing that Vista is in their opinion, a "must have" upgrade...that the only reason someone didn't upgrade is obviously because they couldn't handle it. That's a very strong (and very demeaning) claim.

In addition, stipulating that someone who "downgrades to XP" is somehow doing something unbelievable is again by default stipulating that Vista is in thier opinion, a "must have" upgrade. Otherwise, having reason(s) to stick with XP would have at least some degree of believability.

However, in my "must have" category clarification, I was actually trying to address the general Windows community statements by some users/reviewers/marketers/etc.

There have been people in the web-verse who have, in their enthusiasm for the OS, said Vista is a "must have" upgrade, and therein exists the need for differentiation.*

I put these people in the same camp as those many people who argued (quite enthusiastically) that the iPhone was a "must have" product when it first came out... even though some other multi-task cell-phones can do virtually all the same things (some of them better), with broader service-provider compatability, better 3rd party program compatability, and without spending nearly as much money. Sounds familiar.

*

The kind of "must-havers" I had in mind...
(These are from a limited quick search. I'm sure there's additional relevant material out there.)
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,2074607,00.asp
The Insider's Guide to Windows Vista
"Vista is a must-have for fans of the Green Button"

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/02/12/daily-w...-12feb2008
Daily Roundup HTPCs, Wireless Media and LCD TVs
By Paul Taylor: Wednesday, 13 February 2008
"Vista is a must-have if you�re to find any value..."

http://rjdohnert.wordpress.com/2006/06/03/
The Tech Journal
"Windows Vista is a must have. it reminds me of a cross of Ambient and Mac OS X and it makes black cool again."

http://sify.com/finance/fullstory.php?id=14577722&page=5
The most influential tech products of 2007
"Vista is a must-have product."

http://www.amazon.com/review/R1XTX3TELV0FBO
"Windows Vista is a must-have upgrade from the old Windows XP"

http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2006/11...tance.aspx
"The benefit to those of us who spend time doing tech support for our friends and family is one more reason why Windows Vista is a must-have."

edit-added some quick "must-havers" examples just for clarification

Re: My Windows Vista Experience: One Year Later.

angryhipy — 2008-03-23T18:12:28-05:00

Ya It doesn't take a brain surgeon to read comments from high tech level guys and know they are 13 or think high means they can install a program they downloaded.

Re: My Windows Vista Experience: One Year Later.

McFly — 2008-03-23T18:07:51-05:00

I don't know why Newegg implemented that "Tech Level" option. Everybody always puts "high," even when they're writing a review about how the PCI Express video card they bought won't fit in their anus.

Re: My Windows Vista Experience: One Year Later.

angryhipy — 2008-03-23T18:01:07-05:00

So, I'm over on NewEggs site, on the $99 Home Premium OEM page, going through the comments. Specifically going through the comments of people who hated it. I have to tell you I was enjoying the read, but about half way through page 2 I came upon one that had me laughing and I had to share:

Tech Level: high
Ownership: 1 week to 1 month
(Rating 0 eggs) Be Very Afraid

Pros: Feels like a root canal, only less expensive.

AH HA HA HA HA HA HA!

Re: My Windows Vista Experience: One Year Later.

McFly — 2008-03-23T17:59:46-05:00

TamTheBam Mar 22, 2008, 08:37pm PDT
Yup McFly Aero works nicely with CS2!

Hmm, maybe there was an update since I last used it. Good to hear Adobe didn't just abandon CS2 users!

Who was/is arguing that Vista is a 'must-have' upgrade from XP? That's a pretty dumb thing to propose.

Re: My Windows Vista Experience: One Year Later.

Tam the Bam — 2008-03-23T14:10:14-05:00

Ok, fair point Gerrit. I'm not a heavy user of adobe cs to be honest, but I did claim
that I've not really used it that much. But yea, for what I use it for, it does work perfectly.
I could try some things on it later today, and report if any errors.

Jules, no probs

Re: My Windows Vista Experience: One Year Later.

john albrich — 2008-03-23T10:22:15-05:00

Gerritt said:

So Vista:
OK? - yes
Has issues? - yes
Terrible? - NO
Mature? - NO
Ready for takeup? - yes (primarily on new infrastructure, not as a upgrade as of yet)...

I'd clarify this category ('Ready for takeup'):

A "Must Have" Upgrade from XP Pro? - No
Not unless you just must have DX10 compliance. However, if you are already planning to upgrade from XP Home to XP Pro or XP MCE2005, then the cost differential between purchasing Vista Ultimate and purchasing the XP Pro upgrade is worth considering.

My opinion is that for a number of reasons the only Vista version worth getting for personal use is Ultimate, and that's a lot of money to spend if you don't have an absolutely irrefutable reason to do so. I especially believe the extremely high total costs of a large-scale business upgrade-to-Vista roll-out are not yet justifiable.

I'd also caution people who plan to use "Academic" editions to justify acquisition by artificially keeping costs down. There may be exceptions, but every Academic Edition EULA that I've examined* has always placed an unique expiration on the license. Each Academic Edition license requires the purchaser must later buy a regular OS license when one graduates or otherwise leaves the academic environment under which one qualified for the Academic license in the first place. So, that means the ultimate true cost is the cost of the academic edition license, PLUS the cost of a full version license. The only upside to this arrangement that I can see, is that by the time one graduates, a new OS may be available anyway so your now required full license cost can be applied totally to the new OS. But, for that short period of time during which the Academic license provisions applied, you did get to use the OS at a discounted rate.

Another legal downside to the Academic license, is that you cannot legally use it for any commercially related work. That technically includes contract work, temp work, etc. and may preclude work done as a professor's RA as professors are often engaged in commercial research.

*I have to emphasize the "that I've examined" statement, because each EULA can be unique. There is no single EULA that applies to a given version of a Windows OS or Microsoft program product (like Word, FrontPage, IE, WMP, etc). Negotiations between Microsoft and different entities can produce EULAs with considerably different license restrictions...or freedoms.

Re: My Windows Vista Experience: One Year Later.

Jules — 2008-03-23T09:59:17-05:00

Ouch! Probably deserved the criticism leveled my way (about future shock, and no brain.)
It being Easter and a holiday (where I live)- it could have been the Chardoney typing.

I just looked up "Future Shock" again (to check my understanding of the term) and yes, rapidly expanding knowledge and the technology that develops to service it is a real challenge. Some of us embrace it and seek it out, wheras others find it stressful and resist the change.

However was talking in very general terms about folk not wanting to leave XP behind (and Office 2003). I didn't think I was commenting on the specialist programs and executables that don't yet run under Vista.
After all, I did comment on having to wait for the Vista drivers for my Palm to arrive before I embraced Vista wholeheartedly. Also in addition my 'promise' PCI card 'magically' started to perform in Vista after a while too.
My gripe was with people buying new proprietry computer systems wanting to 'downgrade' to XP because their 'friend' said that there were 'too many bugs in it" and 'everythings different'. Then they run into driver problems with their more sophisticated hardware. I just cannot understand why someone would not want a more secure system etc when they just want to email, surf and write documents and spreadsheets, expose themselves on facebook, and store their digital pix.
Do you stay with the trusty old plimsoles when you could have sophisticated sports shoes?
Remember Windows '98 and Windows ME and Windows 2000 - well they all looked like elementary versions of Windows XP, and in progressing up, there was not much difference. You could move up without too much angst. In all you could use explorer and find eg My pictures under My Documents - now go to your ID an and documents and pictures are not nested etc. "Run" was in the start menu not hidden away in Accessories. The Events in the Administrative tools are there but with a lot of other stuff. Outlook express was an uncomplicated email client - but now we have Windows mail which has sophistications that approach MS Outlook. Now we have TCP/IP 6 as well as 4, ALT + prt/scr -now we have the snipping tool...Ha! and you can't crack the password in safe mode. The list goes on.......

I particularly liked the backup system provided already installed in Vista - yes, if you knew where to look you could install the 3rd party backup program on the OS CD in XP, but did you ever try to customise it?, schedule it? - had to pay for and install something like 'Backup my PC" by Veritas (now Symantec) didn't we. Then - how many ordinary folk know where to find their dbx (now eml) files or their pst files to back them up manually?
How many ordinary folk actually backed up at all?

Guess I'm lucky - personally have had no glitches/problems I couldn't sort with Vista, and hey - don't mind paying for the Vista capable upgrades to progress the sophistication and capabiliy of the applications.