Hardware Analysis - Windows Vista USB Eject Problem

Re: Windows Vista USB Eject Problem

Jules — 2008-05-19T10:06:42-05:00

My external hard disk is a USB2 Western digital notebook drive.
John, thanks for the link to the Ms article on the problem.
I've never really thought about how I stop my disks, but I right click on the system tray icon and then left click to stop. It would seem from the MS article that this is a 'workaround' that I do without really knowing that stopping was sometimes a timing problem
Quote:
Right-click the Safely Remove Hardware icon in the notification area, click Safely Remove Hardware, click the device, and then click Stop.

Re: Windows Vista USB Eject Problem

john albrich — 2008-05-18T18:19:30-05:00

Chad Mcaculay said:

...John Albrich, you said that Vista will turn off your external hdd. What type of external hdd is it?...

Just noticed this Microsoft problem statement:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/931619
You should check to make sure that update is installed.

I've used Maxtor, Seagate, and Samsung, and if I recall correctly, I think all 3 have de-activated properly (under Vista Ultimate) when using "Safely Remove Hardware".

I no longer have a MyBook (Essential Edition) to try on Vista. Remember that the MyBooks come in different flavors, and the firmware and software supplied with each version can be quite different. By the way, see my comments on MyBook design at:
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/65350/
I'd also point out that the actual hard drive included inside a MyBook may NOT be the drive you expect based on advertising descriptions. Inside the MyBook I got for my sister was an old dog-slow PATA drive. (although of course it was still limited by the USB port speed, I expected a much better drive. I ultimately swapped in a Maxtor drive (ran cooler, better error-rate))

My real worry is my external hdds. I don't feel comfortable with manually powering off my MyBook even if Windows Vista tells me it is safe to remove the hardware.

In such cases you definitely should Shutdown the system before you do anything which could jeopardize your data. Of course, if the data are important you should be using a backup protocol anyway...right?
An excellent freeware backup program that is fast, reliable, and easy to use is DriveImageXML (ver 1.21 now supports Vista) available at majorgeeks.com and other download sites.
http://majorgeeks.com/DriveImage_XML_d4919.html
http://www.runtime.org/dixml.htm

edit to add- kb931619 info

Re: Windows Vista USB Eject Problem

Chad Mcaculay — 2008-05-18T16:19:20-05:00

Hello, everyone. Thanks for the replies! That's what I like about this forum; everyone is willing to help. John Albrich, you said that Vista will turn off your external hdd. What type of external hdd is it?

I've done some investigating and discovered that there was a behavioral change from XP to Vista, where a great number of flash drives do not disengage the LED light after being safely removed via windows vista, i.e., the safely remove hardware feature. If I lose info on my flash drives, I'm not that worried, as all that info is backed up on my external hdds.

My real worry is my external hdds. I don't feel comfortable with manually powering off my MyBook even if Windows Vista tells me it is safe to remove the hardware. I've tried various types of USB freeware in an attempt to remedy this--no luck. One USB software, called USBDeview, monitors your USB ports, along with other features, and informs you if it is safe to physically remove the device.

When I safely remove the hardware via Windows and Windows has stated that it is safe to physically remove the hardware, USBDeview prompts that it is not safe to physically remove the device (Vista).

This program(s) is/are compatible with Vista. I've also tried the same monitoring method in XP. When a device is safely removed in XP, USBDeview confirms this, stating that it is safe to physically remove the hardware.

All I can really say is that I'm glad I still have XP on here I thought I was going to be one of the "lucky" ones, stating, "Vista works perfectly fine on my machine."

I guess I won't be plugging in my external hdds while in Vista. Thanks to Jules and John Albrich for the help.

Chad

Re: Windows Vista USB Eject Problem

john albrich — 2008-05-18T11:47:58-05:00

I've had a similar situation, but it almost always turns out to be an app or process that was still using the drive thus keeping it from being released by the system.

However, in some instances, the app or process wasn't working right and there was no reason the drive couldn't be released, but it wouldn't let it be, regardless. At those times I'd have to shutdown the system to safely "stop" the drive. As squirrely as Vista has been at times, and that it still happens from time to time in XP, I'd tend to suspect this scenario wasn't 100% fixed in Vista.

Other times, it might be a process I'd simply forgotten was running and using the drive, like TrueCrypt, or Word, or even a file "properties" inquiry I'd made (that was still showing the "properties" window but hidden behind a bunch of other windows). Just about any use of the drive can prevent it being stopped. There are times I'd swear even just Explorer listing the drive was the problem, as I'd be unable to stop it, and then able to stop it immediately (using 'safely remove hardware') after closing the Explorer window. Odd stuff.

edit to add-
If you've so far gotten away with powering-off or unplugging USB drives without first safely stopping them or shutting down the system, consider yourself lucky. While it might not cause a problem each and every time, it can cause unpredictable system responses to do so, and unpredictable==potential data loss/file corruption...as has happened to me a few times. If you can't safely stop a device, take the extra time, be inconvenienced, and shutdown the entire system first.

edit to add-
Although it doesn't sound like this is your problem, I've run into the occasional USB thumbdrive where by design the LED stays on at all times the drive is accessible to the system, and the LED simply flickers when it is being actively accessed (reading/writing). The LED only goes out when the drive is safely stopped.

However, the more common implementation appears to be the LED stays off and flickers only when the drive is being accessed. In these cases, it's a thumbdrive design issue.

Re: Windows Vista USB Eject Problem

Jules — 2008-05-18T10:31:03-05:00

I just had a little play with my USB drives to see what happens with my Vista.
On my flash disks the power light comes on when the disk is first inserted and then only when the disk is doing something, like opening a file on it. On my external USB drives the power light is on all the time.
If I "STOP' the external USB hard drive then the light will go off.
You say that you use Windows Explorer to stop your disks.
Does this mean that you double click on My Computer to open the list of drives, or perhaps you right click on the Start Icon and then left click on Explore to see your disks - and then you stop them from a right click menu??
The way I stop my disks is to left click on the USB icon down in the bottom RHS in the system tray, then I click Stop, then I identify my device by name and then I stop it.
The flash drive will usually stop straightaway, but sometimes with the External USB disk drive it will tell me that it cannot be stopped right now and to try again later. This is probably because it is still doing a task. For instance, I have noticed that if I have files that are on the external hard drive open that it will not stop, what I do is close them down and then I find I can stop the disk.
Perhaps it is the route that you use to stop the disk that is the problem. Perhaps you could use the system tray method like I do.
Perhaps you should close all open files or applications that are open on the external drive before you attempt to stop it.

Windows Vista USB Eject Problem

Chad Mcaculay — 2008-05-16T02:52:25-05:00

Hello, everyone. My problem is quite strange. I've only encountered this once in my three years of using windows xp. Here's my set up:

AMD Athlon 64 3800
Abit KN8 Ultra nForce 4 Chipset
WD 7200 SATA II
2 GB Kingston RAM (4 x 512)
ATi X1650XT

OS(s): Win XP Pro SP 2 32-bit, Win XP Pro SP 2 64-bit, Win Vista Home Premium SP 1

When I have a flash drive hooked into my machine and I safely remove the hardware through the windows explorer, windows tells me that the device can now be safely removed. However, the light on my SanDisk micro 1 GB stays illuminated. XP would actually turn off the light on the flash drive. I thought this may be a problem with SanDisk regarding compatibility with Vista. However, something similar occurs with my Western Digital MyBook and SeaGate external usb hard drives as well.

With the MyBook, after windows has stated that the hardware can now be safely removed, the MyBook continues to run, where XP would shut down the device. I have to hold the power button on the MyBook to power off the device. With my SeaGate, I have to unplug the usb from the computer since the hdd itself did not come with a power button.

I'm not quite familiar with Vista, as I just installed it today and was wondering if this is normal behavior for this operating system. I don't like the idea of just unplugging my flash drives or hdds without them being, what appears to me via my windows xp experience, safely removed.

I've checked Microsoft's updates concerning usb problems, but none of them seem to address this issue.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Chad